The moment her feeding tube is removed, Terri Schiavo will begin a long, slow, painful death by starvation and dehydration.
[Read the “Exit Protocol” that reveals how much Terri will suffer if denied food and hydration on March 18, 2005, as ordered.]
WE NEED YOUR HELP NOW to rescue Terri from her cruel executioners. They’ve already tried to kill her once before, and she fought to stay alive.
But this may be the last chance Terri gets.
Will you help save her life?
Please read a special appeal from Pro-Life Leaders working together to save Terri Schiavo.
Fr. Frank Pavone * Rev. Patrick Mahoney * Rev. Rob Schenck * Joe Scheidler * Troy Newman * Brandi Swindell * Mike McMonagle
Click here to read their important message.
Operation Rescue is committed to rescuing those unjustly sentenced to die. Action could be taken within a few days to remove Terri’s feeding tube. Please click the link above and read how you can help us SAVE HER LIFE.
170 Comments
The previous posts to this story were accidently deleted by one of our staff. We apologize for the inconvenience.
It concerns me greatly that it is being reported in the media, that Terri is being kept alive through artificial means. Being tube feed is just another way to receive nutrition. It was thought that my daughter Grace would need a feeding tube at birth. She did not, however, will the new trend in medicine be to refuse an individual the right to be feed through a tube. Many newborn babies requires some type of tube feeding. Will we begin to refuse children at birth, the sick and the elderly this method used to sustain life? I pray to the Father, that this evil against Terri is not carried out, not only for her sake, but for the sake of all humanity.
I agree with you in prayer ORW. Praise be to God!
Maxine
Having followed this dilemma now for the past few years, we can’t help wondering, WHERE IS THE FEMINIST OUTRAGE OVER THIS? Here is a man determined to not only murder an innocent woman in cold blood, but to enjoin as his thugs/accomplices, and corrupt even further, other as many other MEN in both the medical and legal professions in doing so. This is legalized gang rape to the ultimate level, if he is allowed to get away with it (here; and if he honestly thinks that his medical and legal human shields can “protect” him from accountability to his, his thugs’, and Terri’s common Maker, all his remarks about Terri’s mental incompetency are pure projection besides being patently false from a legitimate medical standpoint…). This is quintessential male chauvinism at its worst, yet it’s nary a peep, that we’ve heard, from those ‘paragons of women’s rights’, the radical feminists. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….??? Ah! but of course! he is only trying to get “freedom of choice” (as is the pro-death movement through him..) Perhaps they’d speak out if they had any room to…but even if they did, it would be awfully hard to hear them over the blood of 50 million babies killed by their “choice” (because they, like Terri, had the chutzpah to inconvenience someone bigger and stronger than themselves…and most likely, like Terri, the inconvenience had to do much more with the behavior of the “inconvenienced”.
Around the time of Roe, someone circulated a paper facetiously advocating legalized spouse-killing, applying the same rhetoric to’unwanted’ wives that the anti-child propagandists were promoting in reference to unborn children. This was, as we recall, hotly denigrated as “insensitive to women” by the feminists and others who missed the connection.
But now it’s coming full circle…WE HOPE NOT!!!
just thinking…
mcnutts
good points, all. an additional fact that buttresses your post is that mr. schiavo has had female nurses fired from the care facility for daring to help terri with rehab. and the facts all point to abuse against terri by michael, prior to her “accident”, and even hint that he was responsible for the “accident”. after all, he’s demanded that she be immediately cremated upon her death. hence, no autopsy.
this man is, in my view, trying to kill terri.
if he would simply divorce her, her parents would assume all care and expenses. but he won’t, for reasons only he knows. we can guess that those reasons have something to do with the million dollar plus award he got, supposedly for her care and rehab, but instead, has become his little nest egg.
the situation cries out for justice. i pray that is the end result.
as far as feminist hypocrisy, that is standard procedure. there is no political group that is more phony and more disingenuous than the feminazis. shame on them.
Jerry,
Touche! We had missed the detail about the nurses; thanks for sharing…!
If they want to help Terri Shicvo, they should not kill her in such a inhumane way. If she can feel any thing at all the best thing to do would be for her to die painlessly. If her husband feels that it is what best for her, he should have the right to help her. It isnt right of all you people to make such a big deal out of this. The fact is that Terri Shicvo does not deserve all of this controversy. Her husband loves her and is only doing what his best. You all need to respect that.
I think I spelled Terri Schiavo’s name wrong.
What Terri deserves is to live. Her ex-husband is doing what is convenient for him; he does not care a whit about Terri or her real family (that would be the people who want her, and who are not exaggerating her condition in order to make death more likely for her and life easier for themselves, unlike her ex who wants her out of the way of his life with his new honey & his money).
What needs to be respected is the inalienable human right to life, and such liberty and happiness as one may enjoy in that life. That should not include the right to snuff out someone else’s life, especially if that someone else is innocent of any capital offense,(like Terri is and like all the millions of children murdered by Tiller & ilk were…) just because someone finds their needs burdensome & inconvenient to a more self-gratifying, hedonistic existence.
Although this situation isn’t nearly as dire as we’ve been led to believe by Schiavo and the pro-death media, hard cases make EXTREMELY bad law; for every baby aborted because of fetal anomaly, rape, etc., hundreds more perfectly healthy, and equally innocent children, have been tortured to death. And if Schiavo has his way, count on it; it will further erode what taboos remain against men abusing women, especially those they have married. This does not bode any better for women than legalizing abortion did; child-abuse rose 800% within the first ten years after Roe; and if a man can kill his wife in cold blood because she is in a weakened state, it will only reinforce the brutal, predatory view that it is OK for the strong to prey upon the weaker with impunity…which creates the opposite of a safe, free, civilized, compassionate society (you know, the kind thinking people all over the world want to live in…)
Oh, and one more thing; just because not every country is fortunate enough to have been founded on those principles, it does not follow that the principles themselves are invalid. All the pro-death proponents I’ve ever encountered go ballistic with moral outrage over the slightest perceived threat to themselves…thus proving that they really know it’s wrong to harm others…certain principles are at the core of every human heart because they are foundational to the survival of human society, and violating them doesn’t alter them.
Why else would Mike Schiavo have to silence so many witnesses, suppress so much truth, and generally hedge his bets so ruthlessly? Anyone who respects what he is doing has the character of the vicious snake that he is, and that with which he poisons all his sympathizers…or is, at best, simply too JADED to see what is really at work, and at stake, in this matter. I have never seen a more selfish man more determined to murder a more innocent woman. That example does not deserve to be held up before a nation already groping in darkness, up to its eyeballs in innocent blood, and endangered by ethically compromised (to put it VERY mildly) law and medicine, and Michael Schiavo’s ruthless campaign to murder his ex-wife does not deserve any sympathy/consideration in any quarter of society, ESPECIALLY law and medicine, two professions vital to social health and survival.
Jade(d), back off this case. Just as it is an outrage for this man to seek to kill a woman who has intentionally done him no wrong, your support of his villainy towards a woman you don’t even know (most likely to buttress your own self-justification of your and Tiller’s villainly towards your daughter) makes you an embarrassment to all true womanhood. Your constant insistence upon insulting sound thinking and concerned counsel with prodeath propaganda (Pat called it right when she referred to some of your posts as, I believe, “shallow, disingenuous and snitty”) don’t do you any credit as a fully sentient human being. Give it up.
Make that villainy, not “villainly” the second time- though the murder of an innocent child, especially an ailing one, is certainly both!
fem for life
great post, and i can’t argue with a word of it. jade has done zero homework on this, yet weighs in with her uninformed opinion. michael schiavo more than likely is responsible for terri being in the condition she’s in to begin with. and he has refused to use the money he got for her care (over a million dollars) to be used for anything rehab-related – only the bare subsistence to keep her alive. and now he wants to take away even that. death by starvation is one of the most cruel and horrible ways to die, and for jade or anyone else to advocate anything of the kind is inhumane and foolish.
let not jade or any other simpleton think for a moment that the money is irrelevant to his decision.
michael schiavo hates, not loves, terri, and wants her dead asap. that is abundantly clear to anyone who’s even paying the slightest attention to this case. her parents do love her, and all he’d have to do is divorce her and they’d assume all responsibility for her care. but he won’t, because he’d lose the money. but beyond that, he has a great deal to hide in regards to how she ended up in the condition she’s in, and has requested that she be cremated IMMEDIATELY after her death. this would wipe out any possibility of an autopsy tending to show that her neck bones were damaged by what appears to be a strangulation attempt. x-rays were done at one point many years ago, and they showed this type of damage.
let us hope jade will consider (there’s a first time for everything) actually doing some research on an issue before opening her big mouth and inserting her foot, and let us hope she will also consider showing a modicum of dignity and refrain from making such absurd comments. but we won’t hold our collective breath, will we?
No, we won’t! The longest life’s too short as it is…
Hey guys, I may be asking something that is too long to answer on this post site, but.. you all keep refering the Mike as her ex-husband..if that’s the case… how does he have any say in this at all?
I admit.. I having been following this as close as I should have been.
Anyway, I heard today on Catholic Radio… I can’t even quote the person who said it.. but, she can swallow.. the husband just didn’t want to hire nurses and for them to take the time to feed her. Have any of you heard this?
Never stop praying!
dp,
“Here’s a mixup, here’s a tangle, here’s a wretched, regal, wrangle; here’s a knot we can’t untangle tho’ we strain and stretch and strangle;
Here’s a problem that needs solving, but my brain won’t stop revolving; groping blindly for the answer, any minute I’ll go mad…”
If you haven’t already, click on the blue link above for much truth & elucidation on this fiasco; there is also a very enlightening article on at worldnetdaily.com.
jag
actually, using your perverse logic, this case is about michael schiavo making a heartbreaking decision….
but a child conceived in rape or a terminally ill child who is KILLED is KILLED in a horrendous fashion. you can lie to yourself all you want, but there is no difference, really. only the age, place of residence, and level of development.
killing is killing, and when one person CHOOSES to kill another, it is horrendous, no matter whether the person killed is an unborn child or a partially comatose woman.
dp
michael is still married to terri – please read the above posts and you will get the gist of the situation. he has two children by another live-in lover, though he won’t divorce terri because of the money…
it’s a sick situation.
as far as swallowing, again, the above posts explain this somewhat. he refuses to allow rehab, which would likely lead to her being able to swallow on her own, among other things. he wants her dead, plain and simple.
Terri Schiavo is disabled, she is NOT brain dead, she is NOT in a coma, she is NOT on any life support! It is inhumane and criminal to starve and dehydrate any disabled person like Terri who is unable to speak for themself. Terri’s husband wants her dead, but her parents want to take care of her and do what is best for Terri, therefore the parents should be her guardian and have custody of Terri Schiavo not her husband.
If anyone deserves to be executed here, it is Michael Schiavo for attempted murder and all the accomplices he has retained in order to help him suppress the evidence against him. But then, we’ve been killing the innocent and protecting the guilty since 1-22-73; earlier in some states.
The above posts AGAIN were not posted by me…. COntrary to popular beleif…*cough* Mc NUTTS. I do feel compassion for this woman. I do think her “husband” is scum. and I dont think this should be happeneing to her, its wrong and its a complete violation of her rights. Iv’e actually donated to the cause. SO before you jump to your conclusions my little bible rearing friends remember ….”thou shall not judge”
Only in america would this type of thing be allowed to happen!
Jade(d),
No, not only in America. Wife abuse is quite common and popular in Muslim countries, much more so there than here. I recently saw a cartoon in which Taliban leaders were reading a letter that said, “Give us bin Laden or we’ll send your women to college”. Lots more truth to that cartoon than to your very uncalled for, judgmental post.
“Those who hate God love death”. One thing all secularized societies have in common is mass graves. Euthanasia, the focus of this thread, also flourished prior to and during the Third Reich, and is the curent prodeath battlefront in the U.S. and elsewhere; indeed, wherever biblical values are abandoned for secular ones.
Why is it so important to you to attack and discredit those who believe the Bible and defend it’s teachings? Whence this bigotry and bias against a faith that has helped countless people, and that you obviously aren’t sufficiently familiar with to * ahem* judge?
They say that if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit, so I’m guessing one or more of our family has hit a nerve with you and, instead of dealing constructively with his/her/their message, you have chosen to destructively attack the messenger. If you will reverse that habit, you will find yourself a better person for the change.
Only one previous post on this thread appears to answer one posted in the name “Jade” (though that response was not addressed to anyone in particular); why not just (as is reasonable) assume that those remarks were addressed to whomever posted as “Jade” and butt out, rather than just inventing another cheap pretext to spew out more anti-Christian bigotry, vitriol and propaganda, as is not reasonable, and is therefore expressly forbidden on ORW comment boards?
In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the [Hebrews] and I didn’t
speak up because I wasn’t a [Hebrew].
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me–and by that time no one was left to speak up. *
Martin Niemöller 1892-1984.
Returning thus to the main topic of this post, here is a letter from Terri’s father, Bob Schindler, Sr.
Dear friend of life,
By now you have probably heard about a young woman who is threatened with starvation in Florida.
That young woman is my daughter, Terri. In 1990, through circumstances which are shrouded in mystery (and may involve a criminal act by Terri’s estranged husband), my daughter was left severely brain-damaged.
But before I go any further, I must put an end to the lies and misinformation that are circulating around the country through the media concerning my daughter’s condition.
Contrary to anything you may have heard, Terri is NOT brain dead; Terri is NOT in a coma; she is NOT in a “persistent vegetative state;” nor is she on ANY life-support system.
Terri laughs, Terri cries, she moves, and she makes child-like attempts at speech with her mother and me. Sometimes she will say “Mom” or “Dad” or “yeah” when we ask her a question. When I kiss her hello or goodbye, she looks at me and “puckers up” her lips.
This may not seem like much to you, but it means everything to Terri’s mother and me. It tells us she is still here, she still knows us, and with therapy and time she can have some level of recovery.
I know that there are some hard hearted people who believe that due to my daughters condition, she is better off dead. Words cannot describe the pain and anger such sentiments cause us. This is our daughter, our little girl, and even in her disabled condition, she still has the right to life and the right to be loved and cared for by her family.
Why, you may ask, is Terry in danger of death by starvation?
It is a long and outrageous story, but I’ll give it to you as briefly as I can.
After the “incident” that left Terry in this condition, her husband Michael Schiavo sued various members of the medical community for money, saying that they did not treat or diagnose her properly at an early stage, and that he needed this money to provide for Terri’s therapy and rehabilitation and care.
After lengthy court battles, he finally won upwards of $1.7 million under the guise of caring for our daughter, and then to our horror, he immediately began spending the money on himself and his Playboy lifestyle.
Terri’s estranged husband Michael Schiavo has been living with another woman for years, and has two children by her. He is determined to see Terri dead. Why? We believe it’s because he gets to keep whatever money is left… and he may have even darker motives than that.
To add insult to all of this injury toward my daughter, Michael Schiavo is still her “legal husband” and therefore is her “guardian.” And since they are not legally divorced, he controls whatever health care she will and will not get. We are not even allowed to know if she is getting aspirin.
In 1993 my family initiated litigation against Michael Schiavo solely for the purpose of acquiring medical, physical and neurological assistance for our daughter Terri. The litigation escalated in 1998 when Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to stop Terri from receiving food and water, thereby starving her to death.
In filing this legal action, he retained the services of a high profile euthanasia attorney and the financial backing of powerful euthanasia organizations. He also used Terri’s medical rehabilitation money to underwrite much of the legal expenses associated with his effort to starve our daughter to death.
We know that he has spent nearly $500,000 of Terri’s money in attorney’s fees for just one attorney trying to obtain a court order to have Terri starved to death. The very money that was supposed to be used for Terri’s rehabilitation is being used to have her killed.
We very quickly discovered it was impossible for us to compete with the abundance of financial and legal resources the pro-death organizations were providing Micheal Schiavo in their effort to kill Terri. They are pouring time and effort into her starvation because they want to use this case to further the agenda of legalized euthanasia.
My wife and I are not wealthy people. Throughout those years, we did not have any large organizations trying to help rescue our daughter. Consequently, we had to rely on the generosity of attorneys who were willing to offer their legal expertise at no cost or at reduced fees.
The bottom line is that we are in the final weeks or months of our struggle to rescue our daughter from an untimely death by starvation. Death by starvation is very slow, and extremely painful. As you must know, it is against the law to deliberately starve an animal to death. There are members of the Florida court who would not treat a dog the way they plan to treat my daughter.
At this point we must pull out all the stops in our fight to rescue our daughter.
As parents, we are desperate to save our daughter’s life. As people who love life, we are determined to deprive the euthanasia advocates of successfully legalizing this form of homicide. We believe that their efforts to kill Terri are designed to set a precedent for the future eradication of defenseless disabled human beings. I was alive when Americans fought the Nazis; I do not want my daughter to meet the same fate of thousands of disabled people in Nazi Germany, and I do not want our country to go down that same dark path.
Friend, though we have never met, I’m asking you for your help. We desperately need your financial assistance to help our family continue the battle to keep our daughter from being starved to death. There are so many expenses in a case like this it is mind-boggling and overwhelming. Please click here to make a contribution now https://secure.cartlight.com/merchant/terri/?afid=tj.
Our adversaries believe that by our family’s financial attrition and difficulties, they will attain their objective of killing our daughter. Presently, Terri’s starvation may only be a few weeks away, unless we find the financial resources to prevent this atrocity from becoming a reality.
I implore you to please help us. We are writing to you, because we believe you have a heart for justice and mercy. I’m asking you to put yourself in my shoes, and then do whatever you can to help our family. Whether it is $10 or $1000, we are desperate for the resources to fight this battle for our daughter’s life at this critical juncture.
Please do whatever you can, and forward this e-mail to any friends or family that you have who you think might be interested in saving Terri’s life.
I thank you for your time, your concern, and I solicit your prayers for Terri and our entire family. These have been very trying times for us all.
Sincerely,
Bob Schindler Sr.
Joni Eareckson Tada, of the JAF International Disability Center, has said, “Thousands of Americans with disabilities understand the gravity of Terri’s situation. We know that if every last legal safeguard around this brain-injured woman is dismantled, if every option is exhausted, then all of us are exposed, all of us are left vulnerable. And all of us will have to swim against the mounting tide of public opinion that Terri’s demise will reinforce [the view]that one is ‘better off dead than disabled.’ We must not, we cannot let this happen.”
Florida’s state constitution says, concerning this:
“All natural persons, female and male alike, are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty, to pursue happiness…No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin, or physical disability.” Sounds humane and reasonable, a lot like the U.S. Constitution, doesn’t it?
Upholding these principles will promote a just, free, and humane society (the kind desired by all thinking people of conscience and undermined by judicial tyrants); violating them by loosing the strong to prey upon the weak and vulnerable, rather than caring for and assisting them, with impunity, as tyrannical judicial activists are clearly trying to do (again), cannot but promote a more brutal, unjust, oppressed, and impoverished society than we have at present.
If Terri is in fact starved to death, it could likely open up a floodgate of starvations and other forms of cruelty towards the severely handicapped and disabled of America. Once that precedent is set, where, and how, will the atrocities end? The facts are that every person alive has some abilities and disabilities compared with others; and that one consistent theme of eugenist propaganda is the view that they are only targeting a very small minority when, in fact, “the survival of the fittest” anti-ethic, applied, is a contest much more like a spelling bee that begins with millions of contestants but ends up with one left standing.
But this is not only an attack by euthanasia activists on the handicapped and disabled; it is also an attack on marriage. Men are to love, respect and care for their wives as ‘weaker vessels’; this is not a put-down of women, it is an elevation of them while recognizing and respecting legitimate differences between the sexes (Contrast this with the above posted reference to Islam , and other, cultures , where women are not referenced as co-heirs with men to the saving grace of God, but regarded as mere property to be exploited and ‘kept’ or discarded according the man’s whims…sounds a lot like the playboy/abortion culture, doesn’t it?!)
This attack on real compassion by the prodeath movement is judicial and domestic tyranny; it is also judicial and domestic terrorism, targeting as it does innocent, vulnerable human life generally and, particularly, within the boundaries created to bless humanity as the most intimate sanctuary of love, respect and protection….much like Roe v. Wade targeted children in their mothers womb, created and intended to bless the children with their most vital, intimate sanctuary of nurture and protection.
Michael Schiavo has lied and defrauded (in essence, stolen) in order to kill and destroy not only his innocent wife, but the principles of a civilized, just and free society, and every one protected in some way by those principles.
Terri does not deserve or need to be killed, but to be cared for and restored as much as possible. If she has, in fact, ever said that she would not want to live in the condition so likely and conveniently created, exaggerated and exploited by Michael Schiavo, such an attitude has not been reflected in her interactions with her family, who have not Michael’s vested interest in killing her, only real concern for her rights, and those of millions of others whose lives will likely be attacked and destroyed or protected and enhanced by the outcome of this case.
LET U.S. LIVE; SAVE TERRI SCHIAVO.
In addition to the links cited in the article leading this thread, additional avenues of action can be found at operationsaveamerica.org
SAVE THOSE WHO ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY TO DEATH. KEEP THEM FROM BEING KILLED.
IF YOU SAY, ‘SEE, WE DID NOT KNOW THIS,’ DOES NOT HE WHO KNOWS WHAT IS IN HEARTS SEE IT? DOES NOT HE WHO KEEPS WATCH OVER YOUR SOUL KNOW IT? AND WILL HE NOT PAY EACH MAN FOR HIS WORK?
— Proverbs 24:11,12
The move toward death started with legal abortion. They call it by many names but it all boiles down to to an individual becomming inconvienient in the tiney minds of the selfish. God have mercy on us and my prayers are with you!
“We lose our bearings entirely by speaking of “the lower classes” when we mean humanity minus ourselves…(G.K. Chesterton)
An additional note, the first gas chamber was invented in Germany by psychiatrists, for the express purpose of destroying, en masse, mental patients. Such chambers were used much more extensively by the Third Reich, who magnanimously included among the ranks of the “mentally ill/defective” anyone whose views conflicted with their agenda, most notably those of orthodox Christian or Hebrew faith. This, of course, conveniently enabled them to justify and disguise their brutal punishment/execution of “offenders” (the main “offense” being merely disagreeing with, or inconveniencing them) as “caring” for the “sick”. No thinking person of conscience wants to go back there; but that is exactly where the euthanasia movement is coming from, and headed to, with this…
Here are some more worthreading comments on this:
America, will you defend the innocent here at home as well as abroad? America, on the wall of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services there is a huge plaque with a Nov. 1, 1977 quote from Hubert Horatio Humphrey, “The moral test of a government is how that government treats those who are at the dawn of life — the children; the twilight of life — the elderly; the shadows of life — the sick, the needy, the handicapped.”
America, today we are failing the moral test! On Aug. 3, 2000, soon to be President, George W. Bush said, “We will defend the rights of the aged. We will defend the rights of the infirm. We will defend the rights of the unborn.” America , you know that the lives of the weak must be protected from those who would cavalierly say, “We are the master race,” from those who would call the weak and infirm, the elderly, and the young, “useless eaters,” and from those who would call a precious young lady like Terri Schaivo, a vegetable. Terri is no more a vegetable than you and I are poached eggs! She is disabled, infirm!
“So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter. Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey. The Lord looked and was displeased that there was no justice.” — Isaiah 59:14-15.
Pagan institutions have always paved the way for the mass slaughter of the weak (Fascism, Nazism, Communism, Islamic Terrorist Orgs. etc.). “The great majority of Europeans during the period of the holocaust were neither killers nor victims…most merely stood by, neither collaborating nor coming to the aid of victims. This passivity amounted to acquiescence, and the planners and executors of the “final solution” counted on the bystanders not intervening.” — Martin Niemoeller.
America , we were once a country that would run to defend the weak. We are defending the rights of innocent people in Iraq, what has happened to us that we cannot defend the disabled in our own land? We have forgotten the God who made us strong and mighty. We have forgotten the Lord Jesus who set us free. We have forgotten our Pilgrim forefathers who viewed this land as a city set upon a hill to shine the light of liberty into the entire world. We have forgotten that our lives were not given to us to become rich and famous, but to lay down that those in the dawn of life, those in the twilight of life, and those in the shadows of life, would be cared for. As we have forgotten the God who made us free, we have become a land of murderers, where the weak and disabled have become a prey! America, will you just stand by or will you intervene for Terri?
Contact: Rev. Flip Benham, 980-722-4920
Kristene O’Dell, 972-240-9370
Pat McEwen (in Florida ), 321-431-3962
to whomever posted the following comment:
“Only in america would this type of thing be allowed to happen!”
if you, whoever you are, oppose terri schiavo being starved to death, and yet, you support abortion, then you are a phony. abortion and euthanasia are ultimately the same thing – someone stronger getting rid of someone weaker because of selfishness.
if it happens, it will be allowed to happen because poor choicers have given us this type of society, by cheapening respect for human life to the point where it CAN happen.
if terri is starved to death, the blame can be laid directly at the feet of those who support legal abortion – people such as jade and just a girl, to say nothing of hired killer, george tiller and his ilk.
A story like this emphasizes how important it is to be married to a richeous person, versus this loser of a husband. To those of us who have never married, this is a haunting situation. Only God knows someone’s heart, and how we must pray for the Spirit’s revelation when trying to get to know people. One of the first things I did with this girl I really like is to attend a candle light vigil with OR outside of the Tiller clinic in January….perhaps we are off to a good start.
Steven
This must also must be saying a lot how all levels of goverment are corrupt.
Since when does any judicial entity upsurp the will of people?
SHAME ON THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT !!!
Common sense means that this case goes a long way in creating a backdoor legalization of assisted suicide.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
SHAME ON JEB BUSH AND HIS WORTHLESS BROTHER THE PRESIDENT FOR BEING MORE FORTHRIGHT IN THIS CASE.
BOTH OF THEM ARE PERFECTLY SPINELESS.
WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE WORTHLESS POLITICIANS IN THE US AND STATE LEVEL THAT HAVE NOT MADE A POSITION ON THIS ISSUE ?
i WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE CUSTODY LAW BE CHANGED SO THAT IF THERE IS ANY SURVIVING MEMBERS OF TERMINALLY ILL OTHER THAN THE SPOUSE ALL PARTIES WOULD HAVE TO BE IN MUTUAL AGREEMENT BEFORE YOU COULD PULL THE PLUG.
MIKE SHIAVO IS A SCUMBAG.
EVERYBODY CAN SEE THAT HE WANTS HIS WIFE DEAD SO HE CAN COLLECT AN INSURANCE POLICY .
THE PINKO ACLU AND HIS WORTHLESS LAWYERS WILL MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO RAKE IN THE CASH IN HIS WIFE’S DEATH AND THEY WILL DO THIS LEGALLY.
OF COURSE THEY WILL GET THEIR CUT.
THE BIGGEST TRAVESTY OF IT ALL WOULD BE ALL OF THE WORTHLESS POLITICIANS OF BOTH PARTIES ON THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL WOULD CHANGE THINGS AFTER THE FACT AND TERRI WILL BE LONG GONE AND HER WORTHLESS HUSBAND WILL BE LAUGHING ALL OF THE WAY TO THE BANK AND THEY WOULD CALL IT ” TERRI’S LAW ” .
ISN’T THIS GALLING ??
lance
no need to SHOUT your opinion.
while you make a few relevant points, your accusations against our wonderful prolife president and his principled brother, jeb, are purely idiotic and groundless. you have no idea what you are talking about in this area.
shame on you for making ridiculous assertions against our president and the governor of florida, when they are not to blame for what is occurring. if you had done your homework, you’d know that jeb bush fought valiantly to pass terri’s law, with only a few hours to spare, when terri’s tube was disconnected previously. and the president can only do so much, because of a principle in our constitution called ‘state’s rights’. that said, i don’t agree in any way, shape, manner or form that terri should be starved to death. what her husband wants to do is shameless and outrageous. but don’t blame two good Christian men who have done admirable, even great, things for the prolife cause. if anything, the voters in florida are to blame for electing this idiot judge who would make such foolish decisions. and while i’m at it, the media is greatly to blame for not telling terri’s story, or investigating the sleazy nature of michael schiavo.
plus, your assertions are premature, since three weeks remain for governor bush and the florida legislature to draft additional legislation to save terri. have a little faith that righteousness will prevail.
I appreciate your kind response jerry.
You are right.
I was being overly harsh on the bushes.
I quess i forgot about how according to the us constitution the federal legislature shall not interfere im matters of state jurisdiction.
I tend to get overly emotional about these things.
The reason why i get emotional about this issue is because my dad just passed away recently in a nursing home in pennsylvania and his circumstances were sad.
He was eighty years old and he was in very bad health.
He had parkinson’s disease which slowed his metabolism to a dangerously low level.
He also had a massive stroke which incapacitated his left arm and to add insult to injury they had to amputate both of his legs due to circulation problems.
THE POINT I’M TRYING TO MAKE IS HE WAS CONNECTED TO A FEEDING TUBE TO HIS STOMACH MUCH LIKE TERRY SHIAVO.
HE WAS IN THIS TERRIBLE PREDICAMENT FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS OF HIS LIFE.
MY MOTHER (GOD BLESS HER SOUL )IS A DEVOUT CATHOLIC AND SHE WOULD HAVE NEVER AGREED TO WHAT AMOUNTED TO ASSISTED SUICIDE EVEN IF IT WAS LEGAL IN PENNSYLVANIA( AND IT IS NOT ).
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
as far as the legal wrangling in the shaivo case is concerned i thought judges are political appointees and are not elected to a life time judicial appointment.
That is the way vacancies are run in the federal judicial branch and that is the way it is done i quess in california.
Even if mike shiavo’s lawyer was making a legal precedence for euthanasia this is not the case.
Terri shiavo don’t meet the legal definition of of being critically terminally ill or being so gravely injured from a nasty car accident that and no hope of recovery that it would qualify this case for euthanasia.
It would offend and nauseate me profoundly if this was the definitive legal case that opened the door for legalized euthanasia in the united states much like ROE VS. WADE.
How euthanasia was legalized by a set of very scummy and seedy circumstances.
The united states would sink to the level of of corruption in holland and the netherlands where euthanasia is legal.
Think what kind of a country is holland.
Besides there are many conflicts of interests in mike shiavo’s involvement.
I really think the man is running scared.
I bet in his wildest imagination this would not have received the media attention that it did.
HIS NAME IS PLASTERED ALL OVER THE INTERNET AND THE STORY IS ALWAYS ON THE NEWS.
everywhere he goes people are saying nasty things about him.
I would not be shocked if ole’ mikey will be in middle of a criminial investigation for being the cause of his wife’s medical condition and how he played the corrupt and incompentant legal system like a yoyo to kill his wife.
GOD BLESS YOU JERRY AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND RESPONSE.
Lance
One thing this illustrates is that, even though certain abiding principles of our faith do *not* change, every case itself is utterly unique. That is why we must take each one to prayer, and practice out of principle rather than pragmatism.
THe whole issue with feeding tubes and hydration is not nearly as clear, in my opinion, as that of abortion. Though I am not an expert in this field by any means, many believers are divided over feeding tube removal in *certain* cases, the Shivo case not being one of them. Many Catholic writers have advocated the removal of tubes in cases where death is emminent, though Pope John Paul stated in 2004 such practice is never acceptable. The Christian Medical Associatoin (www.cmdahome.org) does a good job, in my opinion, with this debate. And it seems to be quite an open debate. Anyone who says these cases are easy or straight-forward is not deserving of your attention. Above all I will pray for you tonight for healing and recovery, as the death of a parent is something I have not faced yet but must be utterly painful.
If I could add an addendum to the above, I think Jerry summed this best in an earlier line, stating this case is utterly sick. If Terri had a husband who would stand with her until ‘death do us part’ as a traditional wedding vow would read, this would not be in the press. I did not want any part of my post to come across as supportive of this man in this case.
Let her die. Keeping her alive is cruel and unusual punishment. Who wants to live a live where you can’t move or communicate with anyone. It’s very selfish of her parents to keep her alive for their own well-being. And if she really can feel pain and suffers in her last few days of her “life”, who cares? In the end she will be dead and she won’t be able to tell anyone that she’s in pain anyway.
Let her die. Keeping her alive is cruel and unusual punishment. Who wants to live a live where you can’t move or communicate with anyone. It’s very selfish of her parents to keep her alive for their own well-being. And if she really can feel pain and suffers in her last few days of her “life”, who cares? In the end she will be dead and she won’t be able to tell anyone that she’s in pain anyway.
Good for you Coleen. OR needs to learn that Terri would not want to live the way she is living now. Michael Schiavo is a loving and caring husband and only doing what he has to do.
I have to say that every body has a right to live: but rights are actions you can choose or not choose to take. Terri told her husband that she would not want to be kept alive artifically.
Her husband is just doing what Terri wants. He is not goign to get any money by doing that. ORW needs to respect that.
I think that God knows when it is our time to go and when he is ready he will let Terry go. So leave her alone and let her live as long as he will let her….
i would urge thinking, intelligent, decent people not to pay too much attention to the idiotic posts of anonymous and jade(d) – these are not posts from people who have real opinions that have been thought out and are honestly held. they are simply outrageous remarks designed to outrage moral people.
just remember, anon and jade(d), you will give account for every idle word someday….
to colleen, jaded & anon,
OR is WELL aware that God alone knows and should arbitrate when Terri Schiavo leaves this world for the next. Michael Schiavo and his pro-death attorneys/lobby are the ones trying to usurp what are rightly the prerogatives of the Almighty; have you told them to back off and leave her alone, if you care so much about preserving the boundaries between God’s knowledge/prerogatives, and those of His creation?
Michael Schiavo is a selfish, callous, crooked, and cruel sorry excuse for a man, (let alone a husband) who was awarded 1.7 million dollars suing several members of the medical community for the ostensible purpose of his wife’s rehabilitation. He then proceeded to spend the money on his playboy lifestyle and on high-power pro-death attorneys to kill his wife, most likely to keep what he can of the money and suppress evidence of his physical abuse, which likely put her in her present condition. (Suspicions grew when the Schindlers found out about a bone scan that Terri underwent back in 1991. The doctors conducted this scan because Terri would cry out in pain during the little bit of therapy she had early on, and it turned up many shocking facts.
For instance, the physician who conducted the bone scan, Dr. W. Campbell Walker, wrote in his report, “This patient has a history of trauma.” He listed apparent injuries (mostly fractures) to Terri’s ribs, her lumbar vertebrae, her sacroiliac joints (which are near the hip), both her ankles, and both her knees.
Famed New York forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden — who was contacted by the news media, not the Schindlers — looked at this report last year and concluded, “It shows evidence that there are bone fractures that are in a healing stage… The trauma could be from some kind of beating that she obtained from somebody somewhere. It’s something that should have been investigated in 1991.”
But of course, Michael Schiavo never allowed the Schindlers to see the bone scan report. And when they sought to have it investigated after they found out about it three years ago, the courts refused to permit it. A neck x-ray in particular indicated neckbone damage consistent with a strangulation attempt, but not with the collapse to which Michael Schiavo has attributed Terri’s injury.)
The Schindler family’s further complaints against Michael Schiavo include the following:
-Has not allowed therapy or rehabilitation since 1992, despite medical records indicating Terri is responsive…and despite his implied commitment to spending the 1.7 million he collected from lawsuits that that was what he was going to spend the money on.
-Has prevented swallowing tests or swallowing therapy since 1993, despite medical testimony Terri can be taught to eat.
-Ordered caretakers not to clean Terri’s teeth since 1995, resulting in removal of five teeth in April 2004.
-Placed Terri in hospice in 2000, despite the fact she is not terminally ill.
-Refuses to allow Terri to leave her room. She has not been outside since 2000.
-Has refused to fix her wheelchair since 2000.
-Refuses to allow Terri to practice her Catholic faith by attending weekly mass.
-Ordered Terri’s shades down at all times.
-Ordered doctors not to treat Terri when she had a life threatening infection in 1993 and 1995.
-Removes family pictures from Terri’s room, denies flowers from family and friends, denies certain CDs to be played for Terri, and refuses to allow her to listen to music with headphones.
-Refuses to release medical information to parents since 1993 despite court order requiring him to do so.
-Has limited the visitors list, requiring they must first be approved by him and removes visitors at own discretion. Schiavo removed the Schindlers from the visitors list a total of eight months between 2001 and 2004.
-Denies all requests for Terri to attend nursing home functions and refuses to allow therapeutic animals to visit with her, knowing that she is an animal lover.
Additionally, Mr. Schiavo conveniently remembered Terri’s alleged “deathwish” after he was awarded 1.3 million dollars and started seeing his new girlfriend, though there is no written document confirming his claim as to Terri’s wishes in this matter.
He has also ordered that Terri be CREMATED IMMEDIATELY upon her death (no wonder you Tiller fans are so enamored of this calloused dirtbag), which is entirely consistent with the view that he not only doesn’t her talking while she lives, he does not want an autopsy testifying against after she dies.
Speaking of cruel and unusual punishment, though, here is the “exit protocol” found in Terri’s medical file by a nurse caring for her. The long, slow, painful process of death by starvation and dehydration — cruel and unusual punishment by any humane standards, especially for an individual who is not guilty of any capital offense– is, in part, as follows:
(This “Exit Protocol” is a recipe for how to kill someone by starvation and dehydration, and then manage their symptoms while they slowly die.)
-For instance, the nurses will put lip balm on Terri because her lips will crack, peel, and bleed from the dehydration.
-They’ll use body lotion because Terri’s skin will begin to break down and show signs of flaking, drying, cracking, or being parched.
-They’ll put a “scopolamine patch” behind her ear to enhance the drying up of saliva and other secretions.
-“Chux pads” will need to be used—and changed quite often because of incontinence of Terri’s bowels and bladder.
-When Terri begins to writhe in pain (multifocal myoclonus) and she becomes agitated from metabolic changes and electrolyte imbalances due to no fluids or nutrition, the attending staff will have to give her 5 to 10 mg of Valium (diazepam)—rectally—every 4 hours.
-If Terri experiences a Grand Mal seizure, they’ll give her 15 mg of Valium immediately, and then as needed thereafter.
-When her body shows signs of an inability to breathe by gasping for air (dyspnea), they will immediately give Terri 2 to 4 mg of morphine every 4 hours.
-And all of this will go on for 7 to 10 days…until Terri is finally murdered at the bloody, filthy hands of the brutal tyrant she had the misfortune to marry, and his legal/medical thugs.
Terri, contrary to further lies by M. Schiavo & groupies, can move, can communicate, and most likely be rehabilitated even further, given the chance to improve her quality of life. That is why her family is fighting to keep her alive, like anyone who truly cared about her (or the millions of other innocent but handicapped or disabled people — and we all have both abilities and disabilities compared with others…–who are targeted along with Terri, and who will be in grave danger if her tube is pulled) would do.
OR respects the right to life of every human being not guilty of a capital offense, and then some; and is not obligated to “respect” a cruel, lying, murdering scumbag just because a kindred spirit of his says so. You who have so sycophantically, stupidly, and predicatably backed Michael Schiavo clearly have no respect for anyone, as is so blatantly evident in the “so she suffers…who cares?” comment. That sums up perfectly another good reason (in addition to the previously posted apologia of Eugene Loya, above, and Joni Eareckson Tada, on a previous thread)why the Schindler family (including Terri & OR, et al, not Michael Schiavo & his cronies, deserve to win this battle.
WACHET AUF!
Just as Roe v. Wade was based on lies…about the U.S. Constitution, about the unborn, about how Norma McCorvey got pregnant that third time, about “the final solution” from every social problem from child abuse to world hunger to women’s safety…
BROKEN OATHS SPELL DEATH FOR TERRI
________________________________________
Posted: February 26, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
After years of judicial squabbling, Terri Schindler-Schiavo’s life is now held in the hands of a small group of people who have taken oaths to protect life, to defend the innocent and to rescue the oppressed.
The decade-long legal struggle to save Terri’s life has come down to this question: Will any of these people choose to fulfill their promises?
Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida and members of the Florida Legislature pledged to uphold the Florida Constitution, which states, “All natural persons … are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty, to pursue happiness … No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin or physical disability.”
Bush presides over a state whose population boasts the highest percentage of retired citizens in the nation. If he is not willing to fulfill his oath of office for someone with a physical disability, what does it portend for elderly residents of Florida as they confront health problems in the future?
Physicians, including those who care for Terri Schiavo, took a vow called the Hippocratic Oath in which they promise to “apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice. I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect.”
Clearly, the original intent of the Hippocratic Oath was to ensure that physicians, who bear such enormous responsibility for the care of others, use their expertise solely for the purpose of benefitting the sick. Yet many Florida physicians are rejecting their oaths by refusing to rise up and decry the despicable treatment of Terri Schiavo.
Florida lawyers swear an Oath of Admission to the Florida Bar, which states that they “will never reject, from any consideration personal to myself, the cause of the defenseless or oppressed, or delay anyone’s cause for lucre or malice. So help me God.”
Has “right-to-die” attorney George Felos conveniently forgotten that oath in his rampant desire to spread euthanasia from sea to shining sea, while simultaneously lining his pockets with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of “lucre”?
The president of the United States, in his oath of office, vows to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” a Constitution whose Fourteenth Amendment states that government cannot “deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” Is President Bush too busy meeting and greeting world leaders to get involved, even in a small way, with one of the most vulnerable of his constituents?
Husbands make a solemn vow to their wives during the ceremony of marriage, promising to “love, honor, cherish and protect her, forsaking all others and holding only unto her.” Why is Michael Schiavo breaking this vow, especially since he has chosen not to divorce his ailing wife even though he is in an adulterous relationship with another woman?
So many promises, so little meaning.
In the Culture of Death that rests its grisly hand on our nation, oaths are too easily broken, promises too easily forgotten and lives too easily taken.
Mr. President, Gov. Bush, Florida physicians, George Felos, Michael Schiavo — the time has come for you to fulfill your vows. To fulfill your vows as a loving husband, even if your wife is disabled; to fulfill the vows of your profession, even if doing so is difficult or controversial; to fulfill your vows as elected officials and protectors of the weak and disenfranchised, even if those who preach death fight against you.
-By Callie Woodlief
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Denying Terri Schiavo Food And Liquids Is Murder, Regardless Of What Others May Call It
Dear Friends of the Constitutional Republic,
Living as we are in an anti-Christian age of euphemistic, lying language, it comes as no surprise to hear such deceptive talk regarding Terry Schiavo. But, the truth is that if this young woman’s feeding tube is removed, she will have been murdered. But, of course, those who favor her being murdered do not use the word murder.
For example, a news report on CNN (2/21/05) about Schiavo said that her husband “wants to allow her to die.” He wants to “allow” her to die? No, he wants to murder her by removing her feeding tube. And, repeatedly, it has been said, falsely, that she is in “a persistent vegetative state.” But, whatever state she is in, it is not “vegetative.” She is not a vegetable. She is an innocent, living human being.
A recent, unconscionable editorial in the liberal “Baltimore Sun” newspaper (2/25/05) was headlined: “Free Terri Schiavo.” Noting that Schiavo has been kept “artificially alive” for 15 years by a feeding tube, it is said that it “borders on the monstrous” not to let Schiavo’s body “take its natural course.” The “Sun” says “the courts should quickly end this nightmare, and let Terri Schiavo go.” Those who oppose keeping Schiavo alive should support removing her feeding tube, “they should set her free.”
Now, this particular editorial — and its use of the word “free” to describe murdering Schiavo — is exceptionally evil in its use of lying language. Murder doesn’t “free” anybody. Murder is a horrible crime. And there’s nothing “artificial” about giving her food and liquids through a feeding tube. All human beings are kept alive by eating and drinking.
As for it bordering on the “monstrous” not to murder Schiavo by removing her feeding tube so her body can “take its natural course,” these, too, are shameless, lying weasel-words to try and cover up the fact that this editorial is advocating Schiavo’s murder. And to say “the courts” should quickly order her murder adds insult to injury.
As I read some recent stories about Terri Schiavo, I wondered what they would have looked like had they told the truth. For example, a “Baltimore Sun” news story (2/26/05) was headlined: “Schiavo Feeding Tube Removal OK’d.” A truthful headline would have read: “Schiavo Murder OK’d.”
A sub-headline on a “Washington Post” story (2/26/05) read: “Appeal Likely As Judge Sets March 18 Date In Schiavo Case.” A truthful sub-headline would have read: “Appeal Likely As Judge Sets March 18 Date For Schiavo Murder.”
In the body of this “Post” story, it is reported that because some allegations are being investigated, Florida’s Department of Families and Children is trying “to delay the tube removal.” A truthful report would have said Florida’s Department of Families and Children is trying “to delay Schiavo’s murder.”
This same “Post” story said that because of new medical studies, Schiavo’s parents were “trying to delay the tube removal.” A truthful report would have said that because of new medical studies, Schiavo’s parents were “trying to delay Schiavo’s murder.”
In Isaiah 5:20, God, through the prophet, says: “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
“Woe,” indeed, which means suffering and misery from affliction. God will judge all those who — for whatever reason — have advocated the murder of Terri Schiavo. Meanwhile, we should continue to pray that her life will be spared and that she will recover.
For God, Family, & the Republic,
Michael A. Peroutka
pat
with all due respect, and the post you made of the article by callie contains some otherwise excellent points, it is not realistic to place jeb bush, governor of florida, and george bush, our president, in the same category with sleazeballs like felos and m. schaivo.
for one thing, jeb bush has already acted to help terri, above and beyond the call. and i believe he’ll do so again. the president can only do so much, due to a little thing called ‘state’s rights’. even when something is totally wrong, even evil, we have a system in place that must be followed. years and years of allowing tyrannical judges to overrule presidents, governors, and legislatures, have led to this problem. that’s what brought us roe v wade to begin with.
the blame is on michael schiavo, george felos, and frankly, the citizenry of florida, for electing prodeath judges who would rule so unjustly. this is what president bush has been trying to do for the last five years – get constitutionally minded judges nominated and confirmed, but prodeath democrats (and a couple of prodeath republicans, like arlen “stab you in the back” specter, in the senate will not allow them to obtain a simple floor vote.
let’s keep the blame on those who want terri dead, not on those who’ve tried to help keep her alive, and may not have succeeded for various complicated reasons.
I too believe the circumstances surrounding Terri’s situation are rather sketchy. It is very hard to believe that her husband has the proper intentions, and she is not in a vegetative state, but I am interested to know all of your opinions. Are you ALWAYS against any type of heroic measures? I understand her’s is a different situation…as she is not on a respirator. Just curious to know where you all stand on the issue of “pulling the plug”…for lack of a better phrase.
jessica
for more info on terri’s situation, please go to http://www.terrisfight.org
i’ve never known of any prolifer who was against ‘pulling the plug’ in situations that involve artificial respirators, etc…. however, every situation is different, and there are many grey areas. there are many dangers involved – for instance; some greedy family members might want the ‘plug pulled’ so they can hurry up and inherit grandma’s money. also, you just had a situation where a woman in a coma for twenty years came out of it, and is recovering quite well. so we must be careful about deciding that someone’s case is “hopeless”, or assuming that the motives of the family are always good.
in most situations, you also have some sort of ‘living will’, whereby the person on the artificial means has already put in writing that they don’t want to linger in that manner, if only machines are keeping them alive. it’s dangerous when one person (in terri’s case, her husband, who clearly has his own interests in mind) suddenly “remembers” that so and so had said that they ‘wouldn’t want to live that way’. that’s very suspicious, given that he didn’t remember that until he got the settlement money.
i think it’s abundantly clear that denying someone food and water with the goal of ending their life for any reason is tatamount to murder. we all need food and water. a machine that is breathing for someone who’s just hanging by a thread is one thing – giving someone food and water and taking care of them is another. we wouldn’t allow this to be done to a dog – it’s outrageous that anyone would consider allowing it to be done to a human being.
that said, there have been people who have specifically put in their living wills that they don’t want to be fed artificially. i don’t understand why they’d want to die in such a horrific manner (starvation is one of the most horrendous ways of dying) but if they’ve chosen that while they were healthy and lucid, and it later comes to pass, and the living will is genuine, then there’s not much anyone can do to prevent it. this has happened before. i don’t agree with denying anyone food and water (even if they’ve chosen it), but that’s just me. but since a living will, properly drawn, constitutes the wishes of the person in writing, it’s binding.
Jerry:
Good point about the dog. It’s seems so clear when you put it in that simple way. The whole situation makes you really think about your own family and how you should prepare. My husband and I spoke last week about it in light of this situation. It is eerie, though. We are a young couple with a young child…and it was almost macabe to speak of death in such ways. I shudder to think of what that poor girl will have to endure. I can’t believe, given her husband’s shadiness, that anybody is even taking him seriously in the first place!! Like you said…if her wishes were in writing…no question. But it is a lesson to the rest of us. We should face that fact that our family needs to know what we want. My husband was totally shocked when I told him he should donate my whole body for research, transplants or whatever. It is something I’ve thought about and decided…but he didn’t know. We are drafting living wills next week. I’m sure a lot of people have sparked that discussion because of Terri’s situation. If anything…her parents can be proud that her daughter gave that gift to the world. Thanks for the insight Jerry.
Instead of jeb bush trying to rationalize why he should keep teeri alive He should launch a criminial invetigation into the dealings between mike shiavo and his attorney.
My theory is the state of florida can prove that george felos illegally accepted legal fees from mike shiavo that was supposed to be earmarked for terri’s rehabilation.
IT SHOULD BE HANDLED UNDER THE RICO ACT.
mike shiavo has been a free man for too long and it’s time he should be deprived of his freedom.
This would be in violation of his custodial arrangement after he settled out of court after his fraudulent lawsuit.
This is illegal anywhere in the united states.
This is a class A felony anywhere in the united states.
terri was a victim of domestic violence.
He was probably responsible for his wife’s injuries.
I imagine he was drunk and high on drugs when he attempted to strangle wife to death.
She was probably was unconscious long enough to cause brain damage.
In all likelihood mike lied all along about the circumstances of what actually happened to terri and he is about to concoct very precise and diabolical scheme to legally murder his wife playing the legal system like a yoyo.
His agent is george felos and the final arbiter in this satanic trilogy would be george greer.
I really don’t really think that money is not the issue for him anymore because there is none left.
Mike is true psychotic in the sense of the word because the man has a perverted sense of closure.
The man is really selfish and evil and if there was a man that needed god he would be it.
He is almost fity years old and he has another life.
He wants terri completely out of his life.
Every day terri is alive other people will always remember him as a monster.
He would not be allowed to forget it.
Terri will never speak again even if she survives this ordeal so he won’t have to worry about terri snitching on him.
With terri out of the way he can get married over his wife’s rotting corspe and THE WORST PART OF IT ALL IS ONCE TERRI IS GONE HE MAY HAVE THE MISTAKEN IMPRESSION PEOPLE WILL FORGET HOW HE COMMITTED THE PERFECT CRIME WHERE HE USED THE LAW AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO COMMITT MURDER AND HE WON’T HAVE TO DO IT HIMSELF AND HE WILL GET AWAY SCOTT FREE.
Just because he might have changed in fifteen years it don’t relieve his responsibilty for the gross miscarrige of justice and a horrible travesy he committed againest terri shiavo.
He committed the crime of the century.
The perfect crime.
How you can legally kill your wife and get away with it.
THE STATE OF FLORIDA SHOULD DESTROY HIS CREDIBILITY.
The state of florida should build a criminial case againest mike and his rotton lawyer and after tallying all the charges againest them including violating terri’s civil rights and her due process it should get them both 300+ years in prison EACH.
like The late great lee marvin used to say ” BRING THEM DOWN !!!!!!!”
Our freedoms and the right to life is only as secure as our willingness to treat the most vulnerable amongst us with dignity and compassion that we ourselves would desire to be treated if we were in similar circumstances.
Who could honestly say that they would choose starving to death over living a life where there is love and compassion to sustain them? And who would cast doubt that Terri Schiavo is not only loved but also serves a viable role in our society to teach us all to be more compassionate for those who are the most defenseless.
A lesson that would do more for our society than a 10.000 “mercy killings”.
lance,
If your post is an accurate index, you have more sense and true compassion in your little fingernail that Greer, Felon, Schiavo, and their allies (including those by default)have in their entire persons combined.
jerry,
the article by callie was posted here(and e-mailed to both W. and Jeb) in the spirit in which I am sure, given the history of this sordid saga over the past 15 years, it was written…recalling a remark by Margaret Thatcher to Bush 41, “Now is not the time to waffle”…
cheers,
What if the governor took out a 2 minute TV space during prime time TV and called on the whole state to write their legislators, judges, and pray for hearts to be changed. It would be kind of unprecedented, but what a legacy it would leave on his administration for appealing to all who would listen at the last minute.
As a medical professional, I wish you would be careful about this painful starvation language. Chronic undernutrition is painful for conscious patients. Children in developing countries feel the chronic pain of undernourishment. That is they eat enough to understand and feel hunger. This is not the same situation. To the best of medical knowledge, people, whose bodies are preparing to die, (and I would include Terri in this, it has just been preserved artificially for a very long time) do not suffer from starvation as a conscious unfilled need for food. My ethical problem with both sides is that they are viewing Terri as a means to push their agendas. For both sides, she is an abstraction, a case either for the right to life or the right to die. The real problem started long ago when the plan of care was not deliberately set out with both the parents and husband understanding the long term ramifications of their chosen course on all people involved.
Ann
As a Christian doctor who cares for chronically ill and disabled patients, I find your post both inflammatory and far from factual. To begin with, the issue of starvation is vastly under-researched. Any body of appropriate evidence on this should include not only this fact, but also the fact that most ethicists do not agree on this. Personally I think CMDA has a good post on this, cmdahome.org, but there are others. None of us knows what starvation really is like. I have piles of articles about wet versus dry death, starvation vs dehydration…this not a settled issued. There is no evidence-based clinical practice guideline, like there is for the treatment of otitis media, for example. But more upsetting yet is your assumption that Terri is about to die. Where is the evidence for that???
I have been presented with no evidence to believe she is terminally ill. I just saw a kid yesterday with a severe brain injury who has been on a feeding tube all his life, is profoundly delayed, but is very much a part of his family though he is completely nonverbal and has serious brain atrophy. With the cardiac disease in my family, he could out live me easily. A FEEDING TUBE DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE TERMINALLY ILL. And most horribly, your assertion that this lady is an abstraction to *both sides* is a horrible thing to say to her parents!! I sure hope they are not reading these posts. There are enough comments on this site about her husband…we have no reason to believe her parents don’t love her with all their heart and want the best for her.
If you are coming to sweeping conclusions about this topic, with the scant evidence there is, I suggest you take a leave of absence and read carefully through the Bible, which *is* the textbook of responsible and medical ethics. It will teach us all more about this topic than our medical training.
ann
nice try, but your attempt to further cloud a very simple issue has failed.
something tells me you’re one of those people who feels that since the unborn child has a less developed nervous system, that they don’t feel pain either, especially while some abortionist is tearing their bodies limb from limb….
don’t try to put forth the deceitful notion that terri won’t know she’s being starved. what a bald faced lie that is. starvation, for any person, is a horrible way to die. for someone who supposedly works in the medical field, your ignorance is appalling. though i feel it’s not really ignorance, but a need you have to try and justify the prodeath position by twisting facts.
and your pathetic statement that this is a opportunity for prolifers to push an agenda, is pure nonsense. people who are prolife (and you may not understand this, ann, being poor choice)
respect human life at all stages of development, and we stand up for the defenseless, the small, and the weak. and it’s not an agenda, but a righteous cause. we gain nothing from the hours and weeks and months that we give to helping return america to a culture of life – we do it because we care, to help people we will probably never meet. the protection of a living human being from death by starvation is not an agenda. it’s basic humanity 101. it’s just common decency.
but for people who are prodeath, as you clearly are, basic humanity 101 is a foreign concept.
Steven,
I was not referring to her parents or husband when I spoke of her as an abstraction; those are the very people who decision it is, with the consultation of her physicians and chaplains, if they wish. My problem is with the (out)side(r)s – the activists on both sides. It is a case, a medico-legal case, an abstraction for the media, you and I armchair doctoring, and websites like this. Do we really care what is best for her besides our slavish devotion to rights, whether the right to life as continued breathing all other considerations be damned or death with what our fiercely autonomous culture calls dignity? Both sides are flawed, even if I have a bias, too.
Of course, you are right, not everything is as simple as an ear infection. Perhaps, I was to hasty to sum up that frequently contradictory world of medical literature (where antibiotics for otitis media is still debated). Would some double-blinded controlled study really convince you one way or another? As you know, suffering, as a psychological experience, is untestable due to its subjective nature. I may suffer in the same situation where you do not. Moreover, you have already stated that your interpretation of the Bible matters to you more. I hope you only treat Christians in your practice.
The question of what defines terminal illness is sometimes a difficult one. Of course, I realize artificial nutrition is utilized in a great number of non-terminal cases and revolutionized burn management. But what is her status, really? Is she not terminal because of how long she may continue to be kept going? Modern medicine has an amazing ability to maintain in suspended animation those whom God would have let reach their final home in previous generations. You must agree that medicine can overstep its bounds in fighting the common enemy, death. I suppose I have already seen too many souls trapped in the ICU neither really living nor dead. My point was that these decisions need to be thought out thoroughly and realistically with an eye to what long term care means before we get to situations like this.
As far as language, my problem, perhaps too carelessly stated, is that I do object to painful starvation language here because there are reasons for differentiating between removing (what is still considered) medical intervention on someone in a persistent vegetative state and willfully refusing food to a conscious person to produce the sorts of profound (psychological) hunger suffering experienced by millions around the world. You can disagree, but I don’t want us to cause more angst for the families considering palliative care without artificial nutrition to think their loved one will suffer without it or they are a “cruel executioner” to not give it. Our words matter for how our patients and their families understand what we do and the choices they make around the dying process. Here is my slippery slope argument (used so frequently in these posts) – will we start forcing all possible cases to be ordered permanently on artificial nutrition, and then intubated, and then coded? We respect life, after all, period. Will our definition of the end of life then finally be what ever last drop of oxygen utilization we can force out of an already departed soul, by any means possible?
ann
your insinuation that denying a “loved one” nutrition through a feeding tube wouldn’t put them in the category of “cruel executioner” is semantical sophistry.
you can pile on with a multitude of words, in another vain attempt to make the case for what amounts to euthanasia, but it still comes down to the fact that you are agonizing over keeping someone alive by feeding them. the rest of your two posts are all so much gobblygook. the giving of food and water is one of those basic things that is required in order to be truly humane toward another.
in regards to the post from “ann”
you seem to have very little understanding of the particulars of this case. but in true hand-wringing liberal style, here you are weighing in with opinions on it.
if you did your homework, you’d find that the husband wants terri DEAD. period. he doesn’t care how – but the sooner the better, as far as he’s concerned. he’s been overheard by nurses saying “when is that b–ch gonna die?”.
his parents on the other hand, want to take terri home and care for her. and she’s never been allowed to undergo true rehab, or allowed to learn to swallow. the husband is doing everything he can to hasten her death.
try going to http://www.terrisfight.org before you weigh in with more simplistic tripe about ‘palliative care’ and other such irrelevancies. this woman has been targetted for death by her husband, and if he succeeds, it will be a travesty of justice. your outrageous query “Do we really care what is best for her besides our slavish devotion to rights….” is just so arrogant and insulting to those of us who respect human life. obviously, you’re poor- choice, and see this as a vehicle to further your views.
Since you suggest I research your biased inflammatory websites, I thought you should hear from the other side too- From the NY Times (I know you all love to assume all facts that don’t agree with your opinions are also opinions and all your opinions are facts, but even if NYT’s editorials may be somewhat liberal, it is an actual news organization that does try to report factual news).
His attorney, George Felos, said Friday at least 89 complaints have been filed with the DCF regarding Terri Schiavo and none produced any evidence of abuse.
“The obvious question is, after 89 investigations, why is DCF compelled to file a petition to intervene in court now?” Felos said. “And the answer is that it’s purely a political situation.”
Ann, no really Ann
Ann,
As dearly, and as clearly, as you ‘love to assume all facts that don’t agree with your opinions are also opinions and all your opinions are facts’
(hence your replacement of any substantial refutation of any prolife statements with ad hominem attack such as the above quote, which is clearly projection on your part onto them of your own bias…)
1.) terrisfight.org is about saving the life of an individual human being who is innocent of any capital offense but is in danger of being executed very cruelly, unjustly, in the service of the rather obvious vested interests of both Michael Schiavo and the pro-euthanisia movement.
2.) Your referencing the natural affection of her family, with it’s attendant heartbreak and dire concern for her rehabilitation in the face of clearly biased, inflated/inflammatory, undue abuse from her husband, his attorneys, and the pro-euthanasia lobby behind (and not improbably before) them as “biased and inflammatory” in itself betrays both cruel projection on your part. It further betrays a strong bias on your part which does you no credit as the health care professional you claim to be.
3.) I heartily second the suggestion that you take a leave of absence and read carefully through the Bible, which *is* the textbook of responsible and medical ethics. Because your need of such fundamental ethical instruction appears very urgent, Ann, I have taken the liberty of looking up just a couple of numerous passages revealing the heart, the intentions, of the Great Physician, and of all other true physicians whose professions do not take His name in vain:
Isaiah 42:3 states, “A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.”
Further on in that same chapter, this mission statement is further exegeted, “to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.” You get the idea: to improve, not diminish, the individual’s ability to live life as fully as (s)he can, not to judge his/her right to do so.
With even more laser-tuned relevance to your commentary on the case under discussion here, Hebrews 12:12&13 admonish, “Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.”, echoing the same principle.
These principles lay the ethical foundation for the kind of treatment Terri Schiavo deserves, needs, and I strongly suspect, wants, if she could communicate better than she can at present.
I also strongly suspect, Ann, that they reflect the same treatment you would want for yourself, or anyone else you really cared about, if it were you or one of them in Terri’s position, or even worse. (People have, you know, been known to emerge from real coma/PVS, in sufficient possession of their faculties as to make the doctrine of the medical profession’s infallibility laughable to any thinking person.)
Whether or not the latter suspicion is the case, though, it is certainly the kind of treatment people should reasonably expect when they enter a “health care” facility. Their right to assume that they are not, themselves, a social disease to be eradicated (you remember, the way ‘doctors’ like Mengele viewed their “patients” in “health care clinics” like Auschwitz) but that they are people whose lives have intrinsic, sacred value to enhance and restore, regardless of whatever grudges or grievances someone else may have towards them, is in keeping with the principles in the Constitutions of Florida, the U.S.A., and any other just, civilized, free society. Respecting them does the medical profession much more honor violating those rights.
Medical training might make the taking of human life more efficient (but not right), but medical training is much more necessary to preserve life than to take it. Since any thug with a switchblade, a rope, a gun, a baseball bat, etc., etc., can take life, provided (s)he has the will to do so. Society has much more of a legitimate right to expect better of those trained to preserve it than you do to violate or disappoint those expectations.
ann
what a laugh. you are quoting from the new york times as a reliable source? that is hilarious. you say they are “somewhat liberal”. that is an understatement of epidemic proportions. the new york times is heavily, intensely, and rabidly left of center – this is well known except to dim-witted liberals who soak up their advocacy journalism like sponges. and to quote a prodeath attorney like pelos, as someone who can be relied upon to tell the truth…..please. as far as the so-called ’89 complaints’, you are totally and embarassingly uninformed. terri’s visitor list is severely restricted. her husband has directed that she receive NO rehab whatsoever. he has demanded that the shades in her room be closed at all times. any nurse who violates these directives with any extra care for terri is fired, upon his demand. he has stipulated that she not be rescusitated, and that she be immediately cremated upon her death. after going in the room and shutting the door, and later leaving, the nurses have found terri in a state of terror, shaking and obviously distressed. after he’s left, they have found viles of insulin in the garbage can in her room, and she has gone into the type of comatose condition consistent with insulin overdose. he has demanded that her teeth not be cleaned, or that she receive any therapy or even allowed to go outside. i could go on, but your posts are taking on the tone of someone on the pelos payroll, rather than that of someone with an intelligent point of view.
terrisfight.org is hardly inflamatory. it shows and tells the truth about terri and that’s it. if there is a bias, it’s for terri, and no one can dispute that if the feeding tube is disconnected, against her parents wishes, she will die. and although you obviously support micheal schiavo’s “right” to kill his wife, it doesn’t speak well of you as a physician. guess you were absent the day your graduating class took the hippocratic oath, which forbids any sort of euthanasia. you can say this is not euthanasia, but we all know it is. micheal wants her dead, and only a fool would say otherwise.
i would concur with pat about your need to read God’s word, but i suspect you’ve made the decision at some point to worship your own image, and reject the Creator of all things.
Jerry, Pat, Steven, and friends,
BE ENCOURAGED:
Judge to hear abuse claims in Schiavo case
State agency wants to probe
allegations against estranged husband
________________________________________
Posted: March 5, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
A Florida judge will hear arguments next week on whether the state’s social services agency will be allowed to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case with an investigation of alleged abuse by her estranged husband.
Michael Schiavo won a court order in 2000 to have his severely brain-damaged wife’s life-sustaining feeding tube removed, claiming she had expressed a wish not to live in such a condition. The order is to be carried out March 18 at 1 p.m.
But the Department of Children and Families has filed a petition, made public yesterday, that contains 30 new allegations of “abuse, neglect or exploitation.” [To read the petition, go to http://www.earnedmedia.org/dcfschiavo.htm ]
The DCF said the allegations came through its anonymous abuse hot line.
Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer will hear the accusations, which include failure to investigate experimental medical procedures, denial of legal counsel, lack of communication and visitation and lack of therapy.
If neglect or abuse can be proved, the state can take over guardianship from Michael Schiavo.
The Schindlers have filed motions to remove their son-in-law as Terri’s guardian, arguing he is her husband in name only and consistently has sought to withhold care and therapy. Michael Schiavo has been living for 10 years with fiance Jodi Centonze, with whom he has two children, and plans to marry her upon Terri’s death.
At a hearing two weeks ago, his attorney, George Felos, said the DCF’s attemp to intervene “reeks of political arm-twisting.”
Yesterday, Nobel prize nominee Dr. William Hammesfahr issued a statement saying he had examined Terri Schiavo and believes her injury, hypoxic encephalopathy, is a type of stroke that he treats every day with success.
“There are many approaches that would help Terri Schiavo,” he said. “I know, because I had the opportunity to personally examine her, her medical records, and her X-rays. It is time to help Terri, instead of just warehousing her. She would have benefited from treatment years ago, but it is not to late to start now.”
Meanwhile, attorneys for Terri Schiavo’s parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, have filed a new motion claiming Greer made a reversible error in the 2000 trial that affected his determination of whether she would want to be keep alive in her present condition. The motion says Greer made a “clear mistake” when he discounted the testimony of Diane Meyer, who said that in 1982 Terri Schiavo told her she did not agree with the well-known decision by Karen Ann Quinlan’s parents to take their daughter off life support.
Florida law allows for testimony of oral expressions of end-of-life wishes.
Terri Schiavo is not hooked up to any machines, but she requires a small feeding tube for nourishment and hydration. She collapsed under disputed circumstances Feb. 25, 1990, suffering severe brain damage when her heart stopped momentarily. Michael Schiavo attributes the collapse to an eating disorder, but her parents suspect he tried to strangle their daughter and insist that while mentally handicapped, she recognizes people and responds to stimuli.
The National Right to Life Committee is calling on Congress to enact a bill to be introduced by Rep. Dave Weldon, R-Fla., that would give the Schindler family access to a federal court to argue for the life of their daughter.
—-
(World Net Daily, an online news service, is on this case like white on rice; and is, needless to say, much more committed to accurate reporting than that Josef Goebbels’ dream come true, The New York Times…!)
Since my last two posts were rejected even when I truly tried to avoid ad hominem attacks, I will try one more time. Then, I will have to stop abusing this board for an ethical discussion when it is intended for like minded people. But, I think this is important.
1) Media Biases and facts- Nobel Prizes nominations are sealed for 50 years. I find no evidence in any reputable medical journals that Dr. Hammesfahr has published any research at all, let alone that could make him remotly qualified for such distinction. I suppose you could consider that an ad hominem attack, but I am really just trying to point out relative media falsehood.
2) Medical ethics in this country are based on the decisions of the individual or the substituted judgment of their legal guardian. My job is to advise and offer appropriate treatment, but allow for their decision making and refusal. Some decision makers have poor reasons for their decisions. I may not like it that people keep grandpa on life support to collect his pension or social security, but they do and I respect their wishes. Sometimes families disagree on treatment and the courts get to decide. Sure, I think Michael could solve it by divorcing and letting her parents do what they want. But that doesn’t mean I think inaccurate graphic language should be used to incite furror over what is, in general, a court upheld right to refuse or withdraw medical intervention.
3) The Bible is useful to its believers for personal meaning making about life decisions. I respect that decision and the influence it has on my patient’s decision making. That doesn’t mean it would be ethical for all physicians to use it as moral law in a country that is still considers itself religiously tolerant.
So, please continue to discuss this issue as you see fit. I would ask that you leave the ad hominem attacks of me out of it. Please address the issues but please refrain from directly addressing me. I really don’t have time to continue to respond, and it seems not to be the purpose of this site.
ann
you are in fact, abusing this board, but not for ethical discussion. your posts have read like so much liberal, pro-euthanasia propoganda.
that’s not surprising, since you consider anything contrary to your a priori views to be inflammatory and biased, but quote from the most inflammatory and biased ‘news’ paper in the world, the new york times, as if it were actually a credible source. and you quote a paid liar like george pelos as if that consitutes real support for your argument, while ignoring the real facts of this case. clearly, you’re all about political advocacy, and don’t want to be confused by facts.
you whine about being ‘attacked’, saying people should refrain from addressing you but address the “issues”. well, ann, by the tone of your inflammatory, biased, and propoganda-filled posts, you have made yourself the ‘issue’.
as far as these silly statements of yours –
“But that doesn’t mean I think inaccurate graphic language should be used to incite furror over what is, in general, a court upheld right to refuse or withdraw medical intervention.”. talk about twisting words around to confuse the issue. giving someone food and water is not medical intervention. and your use of the phrase “court-upheld right” is highly disingenous, since that so-called right is contingent upon a number of factors. in one case, it may apply due to a living will that stipulates that a plug be pulled, but in another, it doesn’t not necessarily apply when a greedy slimeball of a husband wants his wife dead, as with the schiavo case.
and your next paragraph contains yet another sophmoric statement – “…that doesn’t mean
(the Bible) would be ethical for all physicians to use…as moral law in a country that is still considers itself religiously tolerant.” what nonsense. all law comes from the Bible, or better yet, from the Creator. people inherently know the difference from right and wrong, and that has been placed there by the Creator. a physician who does not accept moral law as being from God and His word is not much of a physician, in my view. i guess a pagan could go to medical school, and learn how to dispense medicine and operate on people. but for that individual to
pretend that ethics and morality are ‘man-made’,
is pure self-deception.
Christianity is the one thing that has paved the way for civilization (and that includes medical and scientific advances) throughout the world. to ignore that is to be ignorant.
Ann
Your post above, like previous, gives a very short sided and grossly incomplete view of medical ethics. Your statement “2) Medical ethics in this country are based on the decisions of the individual or the substituted judgment of their legal guardian. “…is like saying the government of the US is based on the Presidency. In fact, our government is based on many branches, not just one. What you describe in your quote is something called autonomy. This is a pillar of medical ethics, but one of MANY, and it by no means stands alone. There is also the commitment to do no wrong, among others. Does one give “all the options” to all patients? Do we offer the suicidal patient the option to jump out a window? Do we go along with a patient’s wish that he or she be killed? Many patients want their doctors to help with end of life decisions, and often ask them to be a part of that process.
Interestingly, the original hippocratic oath had a line about a doctor never giving consent to an abortion. Though our society has degraded so far from that original oath, in terms of morality/ethics or whatever you want to call it, that does not mean each of us in the field should slide along that path. For those interested in recent literature on this, a recent issue of Southern Medical Journal (I think Jan.) had an entire issue on faith and medical practice. Many patients *expect* the medical person to make a decision for them. In direct opposition to the claim that the US is religiously intolerant…most patients (acc to this source and others) *want* their doctors to at least ask about spiritual matters, and many want their doctors to pray with them. That by no means suggests that you are to force your will, but it does mean you better be grounded in something richeous for when those moments present themselves. Has anyone ever come across a write-up where some poor patient was *offended* by their doctor practicing using the Bible as a moral basis???? If this nation is really ‘intolerant’ then I would expect that article to make front page, and I challenge anyone on this site to find such an article. What a patient wants and respects, whether it be Terri S. or anyone, is a doctor who does the right thing. Jesus did that to both believers and non-believers and that is the relevance of the Bible to anyone, Christian or not.
Jerry,
I’ve read many websites re the sad case of Terri Schiavo. Her “loving husband’s” determination to fulfill her wishes, which he strangely recalled only after winning a lawsuit, is suspicious on it’s face. Lawyer Felos, strikes me as almost scary! Judge Greer…what can I say?
Aside from all that, I’m a stickler for truth, not opinions and rumors. Some accusations you posted, some of which I’ve certainly read elsewhere, leave me wondering. Is the following information proven truth, or is it a list of rumors circulated on the web?
Regarding Terri:
Shades must be closed
No rehab
Teeth not to be cleaned
Can’t go outside
Following a closed-door visit by Michael, nurse
found Terri in a state of terror
Vials of insulin found in trash
Terri was in comatose condition consistent with
insulin overdose
Nurse who violates rules will be fired upon
Michael’s demand
What’s the truth? Maybe all of it is! I’d like to know what I’m reading.
joanne
some of this info is available at the terrisfight.org website, some of it is from interviews with former nurses who worked at that facility, and some of it is from other interviews given by the schindlers and their attorney.
i don’t believe you can access all the info in one place – it’s necessary to follow the case over time in order to find these things out. as to the veracity of these allegations, you will have to decide for yourself. many of these allegations have become part of various complaints filed in court – you may be able to verify them through court documents as well. that doesn’t prove them to be true, but the supporting evidence is likely available, in the event of a real investigation. unfortunately, judge greer is not inclined to allow a genuine investigation that would bring all these things to light.
I really hope that Terri gets her divorce. Michael stopped being a husband when he chose to be with another woman and have children with her. All Michael did was think of himself and not Terri. He needs to put himself in Terri’s parents postion. What if one of his children were in Terri’s place? Would he be so quick to pull feeding tubes then? I don’t think so!!!!!
Terri’s parents brought her into this world. Let them be the one’s to take care of her until the time Terri is ready to let go. From what I have seen, Terri is far from that.
As for cremation: Hey Michael! You burn trash, not people. It’s just a cheap way out for you isn’t it? Don’t you think Terri deserves better than that? Shame on you!
We, too, hope that Terri gets her divorce from this merciless, brutal opportunist…in time.
The question of how Michael Schiavo (or, for that matter, Greer or Felos)would feel if it were his child in life-limbo is certainly a valid one.
One can’t help wonder about Schiavo’s children…and why on earth Centonze wants to marry him after watching him try repeatedly to murder his current spouse.
A single friend of ours, whenever the prospect of marrying a widower was mentioned to her, used to quip that even if she could find the prospect of marrying as a replacement for someone else, being dependent upon the demise of another for her happiness in that regard appealing, she would certainly want to get a good look at his “dear departed” wife’s medical records, autopsy reports, etc., before replacing her.
Centonze might consider reading the handwriting on the wall and get out, with the kids, while they can…but maybe she is too terrified of what Michael might do. He does hedge his bets ruthlessly, doesn’t he?…
BREAKING NEWS:
A California businessman has offered $1 million to the husband of a brain-damaged Florida woman if he will give up guardianship of her — a move that would save her from court-ordered starvation set to begin next Friday.
Those caring for Terri Schiavo are scheduled to remove her feeding tube March 18 — for the third time in the last few years — unless a court-approved alternative is found. Estranged husband Michael Schiavo won a court order in 2000 to have her feeding tube removed, claiming she had said she wouldn’t want to live in such a condition. Parents Robert and Mary Schindler, however, insist she has demonstrated a strong will to live, and they have filed a flurry of motions to prevent the tube’s removal — to no avail.
Enter Robert Herring Sr., the founder of electronics firm HERCO Technology and founder of WEALTHTV. Herring has secured the services of celebrity lawyer Gloria Allred, who today held a press conference to announce the million-dollar offer.
“[Terri’s] situation has deeply moved and distressed our client Mr. Herring who has been observing the case in the media, as millions of others have, for about a year,” Allred told reporters.
“He recognizes that unless something is done immediately, Terri Schiavo is not likely to survive very long after March 18. Knowing that time is of the essence and realizing that he is fortunate enough to be able to help, he has decided to take action.”
Continued Allred: “He contacted me and retained my law firm to convey the following offer to Terri’s husband. If Mike Schiavo agrees to transfer the legal right to decide all of Terri’s current and future medical decisions to Terri’s parents, then Mr. Herring will pay Mr. Schiavo the amount of $1 million (subject to court approval of Terri’s parents as her conservators or guardians).”
The money was deposited in Allred’s law firm’s client trust account. She says Schiavo has until 4 p.m. Monday to accept the offer.
Herring, a believer in the promise of stem-cell research, said he thinks if Terri is kept alive, her condition could improve.
“After viewing video of Terri on television, I came to the belief that there was hope for her,” Herring said. “As events have proceeded in the legal battle, it became clear to me that if something was not done for Terri, that all hope for her would be lost. …
“I believe very strongly that there are medical advances happening around the globe that very shortly could have a positive impact on Terri’s condition. I have seen miraculous recoveries occur through the use of stem cells in patients suffering a variety of conditions.”
Herring says he is not affiliated with any group but simply “a private individual who is looking to bring hope to Terri’s family.”
In a related development today, Circuit Judge George Greer rejected a request by the Florida Department of Children & Families for a 60-day delay in the tube-pulling so it could investigate allegations of abuse and neglect by Schiavo’s husband.
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Court documents and other information are posted on the Schindler family website, terrisfight.org
Links to all “Terri briefs” regarding the governor’s defense of Terri’s Law are on the Florida Supreme Court website, public information.
Curiouser and curiouser! Gloria Allred, a strongly pro-abortion “feminist”*, is getting involved on Terri’s behalf…but we are not told here whether the stem cell research/therapy for which she and Herring want to make Terri the poster child is embryonic or adult. We hope, of course, that it is the latter, since adult stem cells can be harvested without taking human life, and they have a track record of therapeutic success, unlike (on both counts) embryonic SCR. Additionally, it is almost certain that embryonic scr is not a morally valid option to the Schindlers. Judge Greer’s numerous denials of perfectly reasonable moves on Terri’s behalf suggest that he is forcing this matter into a higher court…the Supreme Court? We’ve thought before that this could be (SHUDDER!) the euthanasia movement’s Roe v. Wade…which makes Allred’s involvement on Terri’s behalf doubly ironic.
*Gloria has ably defended women against some real abuses; we just wish that she would extend her work to protect the rights of preborn women, abortion malpractice victims…
Terri IS being kept alive by artificial means.
She can’t eat or drink on her own, so a feeding tube does that for her. That’s artificial means.
If not for the feeding tube, she would surely die.
Terri is also in a PVS, has no brain left, and by all accounts, will never recover. Let Terri go with dignity in the manner she chose….
Quit splattering her face all over the media, like she is some commercial. I don’t think Terri would appreciate that in her state. I know I wouldn’t.
Cali
You too would die with no nourishment. Also, what right do you have to speak for Terri’s desires? Your certainty over her condition and fate is very interesting, given all of the confusion and deception in this case.
cali
boy, you’ve certainly swallowed the whole media, pro-euthanasia spin, haven’t you? unfortunately, you have no idea what you are talking about. some elderly people must be fed by someone else – newborn children must be fed by someone else – that doesn’t constitute artificial means. whether it’s a tube or a spoon, all people deserve nourishment and water when it’s in our power to provide same. it’s the least we can do for another person. your use of the word “dignity” in the context you used it in is obscene. killing someone by starving them to death isn’t dignity, cali. it’s murder.
try doing some research, THEN forming an opinion.
How a human being can mistake food and water for articial means is beyond comprehension. She is only receiving what we all do everyday, those of us blessed enough to have the means to attain food and water.
CALI, HAVE YOU HAD YOUR ARTIFICAL MEANS TODAY??
LUCKY YOU…YOU CAN USE A UTENSIL.
And exactly how on earth do you know what Terri is thinking or wanting????
Better do yourself a favor Cali and get your “wishes” down in print, in case you don’t have a heartless caregiver at the time you may find yourself in Terri’s situation.
Cali,
Here is a reposting from earlier on this thread to give you a more accurate perspective, both historically and immediately, regarding Terri Schiavo’s real situation.
In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the [Hebrews] and I didn’t
speak up because I wasn’t a [Hebrew].
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me–and by that time no one was left to speak up. *
Martin Niemöller 1892-1984.
Returning thus to the main topic of this post, here is a letter from Terri’s father, Bob Schindler, Sr.
Dear friend of life,
By now you have probably heard about a young woman who is threatened with starvation in Florida.
That young woman is my daughter, Terri. In 1990, through circumstances which are shrouded in mystery (and may involve a criminal act by Terri’s estranged husband), my daughter was left severely brain-damaged.
But before I go any further, I must put an end to the lies and misinformation that are circulating around the country through the media concerning my daughter’s condition.
Contrary to anything you may have heard, Terri is NOT brain dead; Terri is NOT in a coma; she is NOT in a “persistent vegetative state;” nor is she on ANY life-support system.
Terri laughs, Terri cries, she moves, and she makes child-like attempts at speech with her mother and me. Sometimes she will say “Mom” or “Dad” or “yeah” when we ask her a question. When I kiss her hello or goodbye, she looks at me and “puckers up” her lips.
This may not seem like much to you, but it means everything to Terri’s mother and me. It tells us she is still here, she still knows us, and with therapy and time she can have some level of recovery.
I know that there are some hard hearted people who believe that due to my daughters condition, she is better off dead. Words cannot describe the pain and anger such sentiments cause us. This is our daughter, our little girl, and even in her disabled condition, she still has the right to life and the right to be loved and cared for by her family.
Why, you may ask, is Terry in danger of death by starvation?
It is a long and outrageous story, but I’ll give it to you as briefly as I can.
After the “incident” that left Terry in this condition, her husband Michael Schiavo sued various members of the medical community for money, saying that they did not treat or diagnose her properly at an early stage, and that he needed this money to provide for Terri’s therapy and rehabilitation and care.
After lengthy court battles, he finally won upwards of $1.7 million under the guise of caring for our daughter, and then to our horror, he immediately began spending the money on himself and his Playboy lifestyle.
Terri’s estranged husband Michael Schiavo has been living with another woman for years, and has two children by her. He is determined to see Terri dead. Why? We believe it’s because he gets to keep whatever money is left… and he may have even darker motives than that.
To add insult to all of this injury toward my daughter, Michael Schiavo is still her “legal husband” and therefore is her “guardian.” And since they are not legally divorced, he controls whatever health care she will and will not get. We are not even allowed to know if she is getting aspirin.
In 1993 my family initiated litigation against Michael Schiavo solely for the purpose of acquiring medical, physical and neurological assistance for our daughter Terri. The litigation escalated in 1998 when Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to stop Terri from receiving food and water, thereby starving her to death.
In filing this legal action, he retained the services of a high profile euthanasia attorney and the financial backing of powerful euthanasia organizations. He also used Terri’s medical rehabilitation money to underwrite much of the legal expenses associated with his effort to starve our daughter to death.
We know that he has spent nearly $500,000 of Terri’s money in attorney’s fees for just one attorney trying to obtain a court order to have Terri starved to death. The very money that was supposed to be used for Terri’s rehabilitation is being used to have her killed.
We very quickly discovered it was impossible for us to compete with the abundance of financial and legal resources the pro-death organizations were providing Micheal Schiavo in their effort to kill Terri. They are pouring time and effort into her starvation because they want to use this case to further the agenda of legalized euthanasia.
My wife and I are not wealthy people. Throughout those years, we did not have any large organizations trying to help rescue our daughter. Consequently, we had to rely on the generosity of attorneys who were willing to offer their legal expertise at no cost or at reduced fees.
The bottom line is that we are in the final weeks or months of our struggle to rescue our daughter from an untimely death by starvation. Death by starvation is very slow, and extremely painful. As you must know, it is against the law to deliberately starve an animal to death. There are members of the Florida court who would not treat a dog the way they plan to treat my daughter.
At this point we must pull out all the stops in our fight to rescue our daughter.
As parents, we are desperate to save our daughter’s life. As people who love life, we are determined to deprive the euthanasia advocates of successfully legalizing this form of homicide. We believe that their efforts to kill Terri are designed to set a precedent for the future eradication of defenseless disabled human beings. I was alive when Americans fought the Nazis; I do not want my daughter to meet the same fate of thousands of disabled people in Nazi Germany, and I do not want our country to go down that same dark path.
Friend, though we have never met, I’m asking you for your help. We desperately need your financial assistance to help our family continue the battle to keep our daughter from being starved to death. There are so many expenses in a case like this it is mind-boggling and overwhelming. Please click here to make a contribution now https://secure.cartlight.com/merchant/terri/?afid=tj.
Our adversaries believe that by our family’s financial attrition and difficulties, they will attain their objective of killing our daughter. Presently, Terri’s starvation may only be a few weeks away, unless we find the financial resources to prevent this atrocity from becoming a reality.
I implore you to please help us. We are writing to you, because we believe you have a heart for justice and mercy. I’m asking you to put yourself in my shoes, and then do whatever you can to help our family. Whether it is $10 or $1000, we are desperate for the resources to fight this battle for our daughter’s life at this critical juncture.
Please do whatever you can, and forward this e-mail to any friends or family that you have who you think might be interested in saving Terri’s life.
I thank you for your time, your concern, and I solicit your prayers for Terri and our entire family. These have been very trying times for us all.
Sincerely,
Bob Schindler Sr.
Joni Eareckson Tada, of the JAF International Disability Center, has said, “Thousands of Americans with disabilities understand the gravity of Terri’s situation. We know that if every last legal safeguard around this brain-injured woman is dismantled, if every option is exhausted, then all of us are exposed, all of us are left vulnerable. And all of us will have to swim against the mounting tide of public opinion that Terri’s demise will reinforce [the view]that one is ‘better off dead than disabled.’ We must not, we cannot let this happen.”
Florida’s state constitution says, concerning this:
“All natural persons, female and male alike, are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty, to pursue happiness…No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin, or physical disability.” Sounds humane and reasonable, a lot like the U.S. Constitution, doesn’t it?
Upholding these principles will promote a just, free, and humane society (the kind desired by all thinking people of conscience and undermined by judicial tyrants); violating them by loosing the strong to prey upon the weak and vulnerable, rather than caring for and assisting them, with impunity, as tyrannical judicial activists are clearly trying to do (again), cannot but promote a more brutal, unjust, oppressed, and impoverished society than we have at present.
If Terri is in fact starved to death, it could likely open up a floodgate of starvations and other forms of cruelty towards the severely handicapped and disabled of America. Once that precedent is set, where, and how, will the atrocities end? The facts are that every person alive has some abilities and disabilities compared with others; and that one consistent theme of eugenist propaganda is the view that they are only targeting a very small minority when, in fact, “the survival of the fittest” anti-ethic, applied, is a contest much more like a spelling bee that begins with millions of contestants but ends up with one left standing.
But this is not only an attack by euthanasia activists on the handicapped and disabled; it is also an attack on marriage. Men are to love, respect and care for their wives as ‘weaker vessels’; this is not a put-down of women, it is an elevation of them while recognizing and respecting legitimate differences between the sexes (Contrast this with the above posted reference to Islam , and other, cultures , where women are not referenced as co-heirs with men to the saving grace of God, but regarded as mere property to be exploited and ‘kept’ or discarded according the man’s whims…sounds a lot like the playboy/abortion culture, doesn’t it?!)
This attack on real compassion by the prodeath movement is judicial and domestic tyranny; it is also judicial and domestic terrorism, targeting as it does innocent, vulnerable human life generally and, particularly, within the boundaries created to bless humanity as the most intimate sanctuary of love, respect and protection….much like Roe v. Wade targeted children in their mothers womb, created and intended to bless the children with their most vital, intimate sanctuary of nurture and protection.
Michael Schiavo has lied and defrauded (in essence, stolen) in order to kill and destroy not only his innocent wife, but the principles of a civilized, just and free society, and every one protected in some way by those principles.
Terri does not deserve or need to be killed, but to be cared for and restored as much as possible. If she has, in fact, ever said that she would not want to live in the condition so likely and conveniently created, exaggerated and exploited by Michael Schiavo, such an attitude has not been reflected in her interactions with her family, who have not Michael’s vested interest in killing her, only real concern for her rights, and those of millions of others whose lives will likely be attacked and destroyed or protected and enhanced by the outcome of this case.
LET U.S. LIVE; SAVE TERRI SCHIAVO.
In addition to the links cited in the article leading this thread, additional avenues of action can be found at operationsaveamerica.org
SAVE THOSE WHO ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY TO DEATH. KEEP THEM FROM BEING KILLED.
IF YOU SAY, ‘SEE, WE DID NOT KNOW THIS,’ DOES NOT HE WHO KNOWS WHAT IS IN HEARTS SEE IT? DOES NOT HE WHO KEEPS WATCH OVER YOUR SOUL KNOW IT? AND WILL HE NOT PAY EACH MAN FOR HIS WORK?
— Proverbs 24:11,12
Additionally, Cali, people have been known to recover from the actual state Terri is in; and, since her brutal un-husband has so diligently withheld rehabilitation and other humane treatment from her, there is a good chance that, given this care, she will recover. If that happens, I am quite sure that she will be glad to be alive. All the evidence indicates that she is already glad to be alive, to the best of her ability, like all of us…and so it’s very unlikely that she wants to be dead; [but then, I’ve never known prodeathers like yourself ever boggle over a little thing like evidence-?!]
It isn’t Terri that wants to be dead; it’s the scumbag she had the misfortune to marry who wants that. The regularity with which radical “feminists” betray women’s rights to real chauvinist scum never ceases to amaze…and appall.
to all that think terri would be better off dead than alive must know her personaly to know that she has accepted Jesus Christ as personal saviour.no one besides a born again christian is better off dead than alive!any poor unsaved person that is living in pain will be in much more pain when dead!if terri has not accepted the Lord yet maybe God is keeping her alive long enough to do so.
norm
interesting take, i suppose, however the facts are that terri is being kept alive by food and water, just like you and me. if you were denied food and water, you would die, and so would i. that is the issue here, not terri’s spiritual state. it might be better to speculate on the spiritual state of michael schiavo, a man who is passionate about having his wife starved to death….
Dittos, Jerry!
We’ve already been hearing for 32 years now that it is OK to kill babies, since they’re going to heaven…as if the souls of the abortionists, and the moms, were of no import.
Having just reread Randall Terry’s book about why he kept getting sent to jail in the early days of rescue, THE LAST thing the pro-death movement agenda needs is a convenient pretext for persecuting and killing off Christians. But it’s hardly the last thing they want; that’s why the anti-Christian propaganda campaign has been so strong, especially for the last 35 years or so, and keeps increasing.
This is an attack on “the disabled”…the handicapped. Don’t forget that in Nazi Germany, political dissidence was regarded as “criminal insanity”, a mental defect…(Just recently, Bill Maher stated that religious belief is a neurological disorder…they didn’t even bother to update the playbook; that’s straight from the ars’nal of Goebbels, et al.) And of course, Florida would be the obvious state of “choice” (like Terri has any) for the Roe v. Wade of the euthanasia movement; so many people go to the sunshine state to retire in peace. It’s full of elderly people…Mike Schiavo refused the million dollars offered to him if he would turn the custody & care of Terri over to her parents. My guess is that he REALLY has some serious abuse to cover, AND that he has been outbid by the euthanasia lobby. Am praying that this does not go down, and will be there in person if possible.
And yes, I’ll be fasting…and praying that if the tube is pulled, that the suffering unto death that Terri would normally experience in that event is transferred to the accounts of Mike Schiavo, George Felos, “Judge” Greer, and allies…since they deserve what they are visiting on her, and she does not. Sound merciless? So many other innocent people will suffer and die if they don’t, and they’ll have about a week, maybe more, to prepare to meet God.
Also, even if she did express an aversion to living in even her present state at one point, maybe Mike misinterpreted it? Saying “I do not want to live in Florida” does not necessarily mean, “I would rather be tortured to death than live in Florida”; it may just mean one prefers living in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi…a preference which many disabled or elderly Floridians may adopt if this atrocity goes down as presently scheduled by M. Schiavo, Felos & Greer. I definitely won’t be visiting there during the next hurricane season…
jerry
I am very concerned about michael schiavo’s spiritual life as i am about every other person’s
i am deeply disturbed that terri’s husband wants her dead so bad. even his thoughts make him a murderer.what i am saying is god can intervine as he is more powerful than any court or judge.
i am sorry you misunderstood my point. what my point is is that death is not the end, it is just the beginning of something wonderful or very bad.i also realize that nobody has any right to deny anyone food and water. michael is just a murderous piece of crap.someone should take away his food and water but that would make us as wrong as him
It is beyond sad what is being done to Terri. We have groups like PETA running around trying to make sure a chicken is killed the “right” way, but so many people remain silent on this issue. What is wrong with our society. We live in a country where we can go to court and sue because we eat foods that make us fat and then we can go to that same court and ask to starve someone to death. This world is out of control. If Terri’s husband is so determined that she be murdered, I think the judge should make him sit with his wife during her torture. As for the “judges” in all of this. We try so hard to follow the law that we forget we are dealing with people. Terri is someones child. Michael now has children, he should be scared that some day he may be the helpless parent. And the new “love” of his life better hope she never even catches a cold.
People need to think about one thing. HOW MANY OF US WOULD WANT TO LIVE THE LIFE TERRI IS LEADING?? What quality of life does Terri REALLY have? She was a beautiful, vibrant young woman but look at her now. Who would really want to live the life she is “living ” now. I know I wouldn’t. Forget about all the legal things that are going on. Her parents need to let her go. What Terri has now is not really “life”.
Ah, yet another coprophagite parroted catharsis of toxic waste not fit for human consumption.
The quality of life Terri is now experiencing, and has had forced on her for the last 15 years by a perfidious, adulterous, covenant-breaking (some phrase, “for better or for worse” comes to mind) domestic tyrant would no doubt be much improved if he would give her over to the care of her family, so she could get the therapy he has so cruelly withheld from her. But he doesn’t want her quality of life to improve, most probably because he has much to hide concerning his treatment of her BEFORE she suffered the brain damage.
The last thing Terri Schiavo, or anyone else in her condition, needs is to be abandoned by anyone professing to care a whit about her (or not, for that matter)to a death by torture. The last thing this country needs is legal executions without habeus corpus, though Roe v. Wade legalized such barbaric injustice towards the unborn.
It is not Terri who has expressed (since the brain damage) a desire to die, but Michael Schiavo and prodeath predators who have repeatedly, callously, and calumniously expressed their desire to abuse and KILL an innocent woman because she is handicapped. Once we admit that as a society, anyone could kill anyone else, legally, since we all have abilities and disabilities compared with other people. (Let’s hear it now for “diversity”…What? Cat suddenly got your tongue, all you “diversity” cheerleaders ?!)
Lisa, I sincerely hope that you never find yourself in Terri’s situation but if you ever do, I’m guessing you’ll want your feeding tube left in at least long enough to eat your words. You’ll certainly want your quality of life improved, as she does, not used against you as an excuse to take what life you have left by torture, just to cover the backside of a scumbag and further Nazi policies in America. (Something about walking a mile in her actual shoes comes to mind…it would get your foot out of your foul, bloodthirsty mouth in a hurry.)
You and Michael Schiavo need to let her go, not her parents, so she can get the rehabilitation and care she wants, needs, and, last but not least, deserves…like anyone else would in her situation, yourself included.
Since you obviously didn’t get it the first time…”The moral test of a government is how that government treats those who are at the dawn of life — the children; the twilight of life — the elderly; the shadows of life — the sick, the needy, the handicapped.”
Many years ago, I was playing in the backyard one summer day when another child, spying a frog resting in the shade beneath a wooden board, walked up and stomped on the board, squashing the frog. I was sickened; not just because I find roadkill repulsive, but because I hate cruelty, especially intentional, gratuitous, lethal cruelty towards the innocent and vulnerable, be they human or merely animal. (How to tell the difference: check the DNA, not some killer’s propaganda…) This should outrage anyone of natural affections, anyone who believes in treating lower animals with due compassion. But worse is being done to an innocent human being; IF YOU’RE NOT OUTRAGED YOU’RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
We need to return to protecting the weaker ones among us and punishing the guilty. Some of you remember…like law, and decent people, did before Roe v. Wade. “An eye for an eye…until everybody’s blind” comes to mind here, but Terri hasn’t blinded or maimed anyone. Michael Schiavo has sought to blind justice, silence truth, and kill compassion. For these crimes, he deserves all he has wished and visited upon Terri, as do all his sympathizers and accomplices.
My question for Lisa is, do you want to improve the quality of life for yourself and be an even better human than you are now? Then get off Terri’s case. She has done nothing to wrong you, nothing to deserve your complicity in her chauvinistic, lying infidel of a husband’s plot to have her tortured to death…and the millions of other disabled, handicapped, innocent Americans this legislation is aimed at destroying. In your present state you are an embarrassment to authentic, sentient, decent humanity in general and womanhood in particular.
Grow up.
For one thing, Miss Feminist for Life, I am allowed to state my opinion, as this is a free country, and that is what I did. I am very much offended by your comments. There is no need to be mean or nasty or hateful. “While some opposing views are tolerated for purposes of discussion.” You are a very judgemental and apparently very angry individual. You do not know me and should not make the assumptions that you made about me, nor attack me in writing. This certainly says a lot about you as an individual. Man, do you have issues.
And to state for the record, I would not want to be kept alive in the state that Terri is in. To me, IN MY OPINION, that in itself would be cruel. And by the way, the cat does not have my tongue on this issue.
As far as your opinions on this situation, you are entitled to your opinion but you shouldn’t write such ridiculous things about people you do not even know.
You need to get off your high horse and allow others their right to have an opinion.
Difficult is it to live in a world of death, where Life is truely all we have untill we do die. No person or government should end an innocent life, including the unborn. I do believe in stem cell research, but not at the cost of taking a human life. Stem cell research could help Terri Schiavo and so many others. Terri Schiavo should be allowed to live. We all have a right to live, regardless of the level of quality of life.
Lisa,
Why not read the rest of the sentence, “While some opposing views are tolerated for the purposes of discussion, this is not a place to verbally attack ORW or its supporters.” I don’t think anyone said you had no right to express your opinion, but since that opinion includes a rather uninformed attack on an OR supporter, this is not the place for it.
Apparently the cat does have your tongue on the issue (diversity, being a respect for people despite their legitimate abilities or disabilities, and other things, especially those beyond their control) mentioned; no one accused you of embarrassed silence on Terri Schiavo’s plight.
Speaking of issues, if making and spouting off unfounded assumptions about people one doesn’t even know, then you are hardly so free of issues (or meanness, nastiness, hatred, anger, etc.)as to put you in a position to criticize others for those things.
Yes, I get angry when innocent people are tortured to death and otherwise abused, justice is miscarried, and chauvinistic brutes get away with murder and are held up as “compassionate, just, and humane” in the process. Most normal people do. Your anger seems to be raised by having your bluff called; normal, perhaps, but hardly the moral outrage of torturing an innocent woman to death. ( A strange preference for someone so free of “judgmentalism” as you claim to be; most of us think that condemning an innocent person to execution is the epitome of being unduly judgmental.)
You will be in a position to express what you would or would not want done if you were in Terri’s position when you have been there, or close to it; but even if you found that you would prefer death to rehabilitation and the love of your family to the extent that you could experience it, that is not how Terri feels, it is not how many other disabled people feel, and this much more immediately, vitally and directly concerns them, not you.
It is certainly heinously judgmental of you to put their lives at risk for the sake of your personal feelings and uninformed opinions.
And suppose, just suppose, that Terri’s murder were to prevent discovery/development of new medical treatments that could improve the quality of life for millions suffering in circumstances similar to hers. If you ever did find yourself in such circumstances, that would most likely be your preference…if you had the choice.
(After your response to merely having been brought up short, don’t try to sell us on the notion that you wouldn’t want the best quality of life available to you; it won’t fly.)
There is an appropriate place to dump the toxic sort of stuff you’ve put here, despite messages asking you not to. It’s called a toilet. Next time use it, not people who are trying to defend the truth against propaganda, and innocent human beings against real cruelty and injustice.
Thanks!
Check out wnd.com for some great breaking news updates on Terri v. Hitler…
I bind unto myself today
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same
The Three in One and One in Three.
I bind this today to me forever
By power of faith, Christ’s incarnation;
His baptism in Jordan river,
His death on Cross for my salvation;
His bursting from the spicèd tomb,
His riding up the heavenly way,
His coming at the day of doom
I bind unto myself today.
I bind unto myself the power
Of the great love of cherubim;
The sweet ‘Well done’ in judgment hour,
The service of the seraphim,
Confessors’ faith, Apostles’ word,
The Patriarchs’ prayers, the prophets’ scrolls,
All good deeds done unto the Lord
And purity of virgin souls.
I bind unto myself today
The virtues of the star lit heaven,
The glorious sun’s life giving ray,
The whiteness of the moon at even,
The flashing of the lightning free,
The whirling wind’s tempestuous shocks,
The stable earth, the deep salt sea
Around the old eternal rocks.
I bind unto myself today
The power of God to hold and lead,
His eye to watch, His might to stay,
His ear to hearken to my need.
The wisdom of my God to teach,
His hand to guide, His shield to ward;
The word of God to give me speech,
His heavenly host to be my guard.
Against the demon snares of sin,
The vice that gives temptation force,
The natural lusts that war within,
The hostile men that mar my course;
Or few or many, far or nigh,
In every place and in all hours,
Against their fierce hostility
I bind to me these holy powers.
Against all Satan’s spells and wiles,
Against false words of heresy,
Against the knowledge that defiles,
Against the heart’s idolatry,
Against the wizard’s evil craft,
Against the death wound and the burning,
The choking wave, the poisoned shaft,
Protect me, Christ, till Thy returning.
Christ be with me, Christ within me,
Christ behind me, Christ before me,
Christ beside me, Christ to win me,
Christ to comfort and restore me.
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.
I bind unto myself the Name,
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.
By Whom all nature hath creation,
Eternal Father, Spirit, Word:
Praise to the Lord of my salvation,
Salvation is of Christ the Lord.
– St. Patrick’s Breastplate, set to verse by C.F. Alexander.
Happy St. Patrick’s Day, and keep up the Great Work, ORW & friends
slainte!
I am an atheist, and yes, I don’t believe in God. I live in Florida and helped protest yesterday to help Terri Schivao. What I found shocking is that every single march or protest in the area was related to some church or ministry cause. It seems that everyone is only trying to help her becuase of 1000 year old book says it is ommoral to kill her.
I am pro-life, and I know other atheists like me, who are pro-life. Abortion is wrong and it needs to be stopped. But almost all well known, or significant pro-life groups are from a church, or have Christian roots. It is hard to find people that are motivated to fight abortion and help people like Terri that don’t have a bible in their right hand.
http://www.godlessprolifers.org/
Please help Terri Schiavo.
Medical science cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Terri Shiavo is in a vegitative state. Life shows its face in many ways, frozen bacteria in the north & south poles, that came back to life hundreds of years later. Does not life need some sort of noruisment? Even if you were to classify a HUMAN BEING as a vegetable, do we not bring in plants from the cold, do we not water and give nutrients? Please let her parents take care of her. There are thosands of people in the whole world that starve to death every day!!!!!! Still there are some organazations that help without monetary gain. There is enough hate and violence here we as live our lives. LOOK TO THE STARS, COUNT THEM, LOOK AT ALL THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS FORMS OF LIFE ON THIS SPECK WE CALL EARTH. THE BEGING AND THE END, TAKE EARTH AND PUT THE H IN FRONT YOU GET HEART.
Dear Feminist for life:
I’m curious regarding your description of my first posting as an “attack.” By no means was it meant as an attack on an OR supporter. That you took it that way does not make sense to me. I would not attack anyone on this website nor any of its supporters. I merely stated my opinion. You act as if it were a personal attack toward you, which it was not. You’re the one who responded with an unwarranted attack on me.
I do believe in diversity. I honestly believe in the quality of life. I wouldn’t attempt to force my views on anyone, especially in an angry and vicious manner as you have done. I did not criticize anyone as you have done.
There was no anger, as you put it, in my first posting whatsoever. Your response to my first posting made me angry, as you have no right to say the things you said. I respect your views on the subject and will not lower myself to your level by saying nasty, mean, ridiculous things about you.
For you information, I would NOT want to live in the state that Terri is in. I have this in my advanced directives. I have seen others in that condition and I would not want to live that way. Everyone is entitled their opinions.
You do not need to use this forum as a way to dump your anger and direct it toward those with opposing views. I repeat that I was not angry nor inappropriate in my first posting. YOU are the one who attacked ME. You are the one who was angry. You need to deal with the anger and hatred that you harbor for anyone who doesn’t believe as you do. You seem like such a mean and hateful person. I do feel sorry for you because life is too short to be so hateful and angry toward others.
I respect your opinion. You should show me that same respect.
Take care.
“I will not lower myself to your level by saying nasty, mean, ridiculous things about you.”– isn’t putting someone on a lower level than yourself nasty, mean, and ridiculous, especially someone you don’t even know, just for disagreeing with you?
You said, in your first post, that those trying to save Terri’s life should back off and let her be tortured to death. That may be your desire, but it isn’t Terri’s, nor those who have her best interests at heart instead of their own butt-covering/anti-social agendas; so your opinion, selfish to the core (legalizing the carrying out of your professed wishes in her situation would open the door, and wide, to killing off disabled people who did not want to die. Ask any living Holocaust survivor.)
If that is how you show “respect”, you can spare us your phony respect.
“Man, do you have issues.” — again, since you admit that you and Ffl don’t know each other, you would hardly seem in a position to identify, assess, let alone heal, her personal “issues”. So what was your intent in saying that, if not to portray the messenger of a message you did not find to your liking, as mentally challenged? You substituted ad hominem attack and personal opinion for any substantive refutation of any of Ffl’s statements. You don’t want to heal anything; you just want to hurt anyone who ventures to challenge your pro-death cant/dogma.
“I have a right to express my opinion”…yet “you have no right to say the things you said”…just typical pro-death fascism; “free speech for me but not for thee”.
Actually, laws that legitimately restrict speech do so on the basis of actual harm done to someone by that speech; and the opinions you have expressed have arguably inflicted more injustice, more senseless, needless suffering on humanity than those expressed by Ffl and other prolifers on this board.
That being the case, you are hardly in any position to talk about anyone else’s “issues”.
I happen to have met, worked with, and gotten to know Ffl better than you have, Lisa; and I’ll wager that, if you were to meet her yourself somewhere other than a battlefield for life, liberty, and all that is good about Western Civilization, you would recognize pretty quickly just how distorted, cruel, and unjust your caricature of her really is.
Since the shoe fits, have the honesty to wear it, and back off those of us who have much more legitimage claims against you than you will ever have against us.
All the best of all that is truly good and none of what is truly evil,
Dear Operation Rescue West,
We wish that we could be with you in Florida and, if the worst happens, at least one of us will probably come asap. In the meantime, know that you are so in our sympathies, our hearts, and our prayers. A choir director Pat knew and worked with years ago used to say that when you sing hymns, you pray twice. We aren’t sure if that is literally true, but we do know that God inhabits the praises of His people. In that spirit, as we cry, pray, and hold you, the Schindler family and our Nation in our thoughts, we offer a bouquet, as it were, of prayer and praise hymns for you, the Schindler family, and our nation, especially as we approach Holy Week.
We hope that this informal but heartfelt collection blesses you as you are such a blessing to us!
—
Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise; be thankful unto Him, and bless His name, for He is good, and His mercy endures forever.
Hail to the Lord’s anointed, great David’s greater Son!
Hail in the time appointed, His reign on earth begun!
He comes to break oppression, to set the captive free;
To take away transgression and rule in equity.
He comes in succor speedy to those who suffer wrong;
To help the poor and needy, and bid the weak be strong;
To give them songs for sighing, their darkness turn to light,
Whose souls, condemned and dying, were precious in His sight.
By such shall He be fearèd while sun and moon endure;
Beloved, obeyed, reverèd; for He shall judge the poor
Through changing generations, with justice, mercy, truth,
While stars maintain their stations, or moons renew their youth.
He shall come down like showers upon the fruitful earth;
Love, joy, and hope, like flowers, spring in His path to birth.
Before Him, on the mountains, shall peace, the herald, go,
And righteousness, in fountains, from hill to valley flow.
Arabia’s desert ranger to Him shall bow the knee;
The Ethiopian stranger His glory come to see;
With offerings of devotion ships from the isles shall meet,
To pour the wealth of oceans in tribute at His feet.
Kings shall fall down before Him, and gold and incense bring;
All nations shall adore Him, His praise all people sing;
For He shall have dominion o’er river, sea and shore,
Far as the eagle’s pinion or dove’s light wing can soar.
For Him shall prayer unceasing and daily vows ascend;
His kingdom still increasing, a kingdom without end:
The mountain dews shall nourish a seed in weakness sown,
Whose fruit shall spread and flourish and shake like Lebanon.
O’er every foe victorious, He on His throne shall rest;
From age to age more glorious, all blessing and all blest.
The tide of time shall never His covenant remove;
His Name shall stand forever, His Name to us is Love.
–James Montgomery
(The hymn is a loose paraphrase of Psalm 72, a so-called “Messianic” psalm because it describes a king of such noble character that it can only point to the Messiah. The psalm bears the heading “Of Solomon,” which has been translated to mean written by, written about, or dedicated to Solomon. The King James translation Montgomery used assumes not only that it was written about Solomon, but that his father David wrote it. The Davidic lineage is the focus of the hymn, reminding us that though Solomon would surpass his father David’s reign, a greater Son of David would one day eclipse them both.
Background paragraph © 1996, Greg Scheer. Used by permission. If you’d like permission to use this text in church publications, please call him at (412) 247-7364.)
Especially for Terri, and all who suffer severe afflictions;
O Jesus, King of Glory,
Both David’s Lord and Son!
Thy realm endures forever,
In Heav’n is fixed Thy throne.
Help that in earth’s dominions,
Throughout from pole to pole,
Thy reign may spread salvation,
To each benighted soul.
The Eastern sages, bringing
Their tribute gifts to Thee,
Bear witness to Thy kingdom
And humbly bow the knee.
To Thee the star is pointing,
And the prophetic Word;
Hence joyously we hail Thee:
Our Savior and our Lord!
Thou art a mighty Monarch,
As by Thy Word is told,
Yet carest Thou but little
For earthly goods or gold;
On no proud steed Thou ridest,
Thou wear’st no precious crown
Nor dwell’st in lordly castle,
But bearest scoff and frown.
Yet art Thou decked with beauty,
With rays of glorious light;
Thy works proclaim Thy goodness,
And all Thy ways are right.
Vouchsafe to shield Thy people
With Thine almighty arm
That they may dwell in safety
From those who mean them harm.
Ah, look on me with pity
Though I am weak and poor;
Admit me to Thy kingdom
To dwell there, blest and sure.
I pray Thee, guide and keep me
Safe from my bitter foes,
From sin and death and Satan;
Free me from all my woes.
And bid Thy Word within me
Shine as the fairest star;
Keep sin and all false doctrine
Forever from me far.
Help me confess Thee truly
And with Thy Christendom
Here own Thee King and Savior
And in the world to come.
— Martin Behm
O God, be merciful to me,
My soul for refuge comes to Thee,
Beneath Thy wings I safe will stay,
Until these troubles pass away.
To God Most High shall rise my prayer,
To God Who makes my wants His care,
From Heav’n He will salvation send,
And me from every foe defend.
Great foes and fierce my soul alarm,
Inflamed with rage and strong to harm,
But God, from Heav’n His dwelling place,
Will rescue me with truth and grace.
Be Thou, O God, exalted high,
Yea, far above the starry sky,
And let Thy glory be displayed
O’er all the earth Thy hands have made.
My soul is grieved because my foes
With treacherous plans my way enclose;
But from the snares that they devise
Their own undoing shall arise.
My heart is steadfast, O my King,
My heart is tuned Thy praise to sing;
Awake, my soul, and swell the song,
Let vibrant harp the notes prolong.
Yea, I will early wake and sing,
A thankful hymn to Thee will bring,
For unto Heav’n Thy mercies rise,
Thy truth is lofty as the skies.
Be Thou, O God, exalted high,
Yea, far above the starry sky,
And let Thy glory be displayed
O’er all the earth Thy hands have made.
Paraphrase of Psalm 57; author unknown
O hear my cry, be gracious now to me,
Come, Great Deliverer, come;
My soul bowed down is longing now for Thee,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
Refrain
I’ve wandered far away o’er mountains cold,
I’ve wandered far away from home;
O take me now, and bring me to Thy fold,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
I have no place, no shelter from the night,
Come, Great Deliverer, come;
One look from Thee would give me life and light,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
Refrain
My path is lone, and weary are my feet,
Come, Great Deliverer, come;
Mine eyes look up Thy loving smile to meet,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
Refrain
Thou wilt not spurn contrition’s broken sigh,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
Regard my prayer, and hear my humble cry,
Come, Great Deliverer, come.
Refrain
— Fanny J. Crosby
For Bob and Mary Schindler, and all other parents whose children suffer all manner of injustice, affliction, injury, and any other handicaps:
Gracious Savior, gentle Shepherd,
Our little ones are dear to Thee;
Gathered with Thine arms and carried
In Thy bosom may they be
Sweetly, gently, safely tended,
From all want and danger free.
Tender Shepherd, never leave them
From Thy fold to go astray;
By Thy look of love directed,
May they walk the narrow way;
Thus direct them, and protect them,
Lest they fall an easy prey.
Let Thy holy Word instruct them:
Fill their minds with heav’nly light;
Let Thy love and grace constrain them,
To approve whate’er is right,
Take Thine easy yoke and wear it,
And to prove Thy burden light.
Cleanse their hearts from sinful folly
In the stream Thy love supplied;
Mingled streams of blood and water
Flowing from Thy wounded side;
And to heav’nly pastures lead them,
Where Thine own still waters glide.
— John Keble
Are all the foes of Sion fools,
Who thus devour her saints?
Do they not know her Savior rules,
And pities her complaints?
They shall be seized with sad surprise;
For God’s revenging arm
Scatters the bones of them that rise
To do His children harm.
In vain the sons of Satan boast
Of armies in array;
When God has first despised their host
They fall an easy prey.
O for a word from Zion’s King,
Her captives to restore!
Jacob with all his tribes shall sing,
And Judah weep no more.
— Isaac Watts
Heal us, Emmanuel, hear our prayer
[originally, Heal us, Emmanuel, here we are]
We wait to feel Thy touch;
Deep wounded souls to Thee repair,
And Savior, we are such.
Our faith is feeble, we confess
We faintly trust Thy Word;
But wilt Thou pity us the less?
Be that far from Thee, Lord!
Remember him who once applied
With trembling for relief
“Lord, I believe,” with tears he cried;
“O help my unbelief!”
She, too, who touched Thee in the press
And healing virtue stole,
Was answered, “Daughter, go in peace;
Thy faith has made thee whole.”
Concealed amid the gathering throng,
She would have shunned Thy view;
And if her faith was firm and strong,
Had strong misgivings too.
Like her, with hopes and fears we come
To touch Thee if we may;
O send us not despairing home;
Send none unhealed away.
— William Cowper
For our nation, because we see our own plight figured in Terri’s sufferings and plight:
Have mercy on us, God most high,
Who lift our hearts to Thee;
Raise up the fallen, cheer the faint,
Most holy Trinity.
Most ancient of all mysteries!
Before Thy throne we lie;
Have mercy now, most Merciful,
Most holy Trinity.
When heaven and earth were yet unmade,
When time was yet unknown,
Thou, in Thy bliss and majesty,
Didst live and love alone.
Thou wert not born; there was no fount
From which Thy Being flowed;
There is no end which Thou canst reach;
But Thou art simply God.
How wonderful creation is,
The work that Thou didst bless;
And oh, what then must Thou be like,
Eternal Loveliness!
How beautiful the angels are,
The saints how bright in bliss;
But with Thy beauty, Lord, compared,
How dull, how poor is this.
O listen, then, most pitiful,
To Thy poor creature’s heart:
It blesses Thee that Thou art God;
That Thou art what Thou art.
Most ancient of all mysteries!
Still at Thy throne we lie;
Have mercy now, most Merciful,
Most holy Trinity.
– F.W. Faber (slightly altered)
O God of earth and altar, bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter, our people drift and die;
The walls of gold entomb us, the swords of scorn divide;
Take not Thy thunder from us, but take away our pride.
From all that terror teaches, from lies of tongue and pen,
From all the easy speeches that comfort cruel men;
From sale and profanation of honor and the sword;
From sleep and from damnation, deliver us, good Lord!
Tie in a living tether, the prince and priest and thrall;
Bind all our lives together, smite us and save us all;
In ire and exultation aflame with faith and free,
Lift up a living nation, a single sword to Thee.
– G.K. Chesterton
Great King of nations, hear our prayer,
While at Thy feet we fall,
And humbly with united cry
To Thee for mercy call;
The guilt is ours, but grace is Thine,
O turn us not away;
But hear us from Thy lofty throne,
And help us when we pray.
Our fathers’ sins were manifold,
And ours no less we own,
Yet wondrously from age to age
Thy goodness has been shown;
When dangers, like a stormy sea,
Beset our country round,
To Thee we looked, to Thee we cried,
And help in Thee was found.
With one consent we meekly bow
Beneath Thy chastening hand,
And, pouring forth confession meet,
Mourn with our mourning land;
With pitying eye behold our need,
As thus we lift our prayer;
Correct us with Thy judgments, Lord,
Then let Thy mercy spare.
— John H. Gurney
—-
For the Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world; Have mercy on us.
Refrain
All glory, laud and honor,
To Thee, Redeemer, King,
To Whom the lips of children
Made sweet hosannas ring.
Thou art the King of Israel,
Thou David’s royal Son,
Who in the Lord’s Name comest,
The King and Blessèd One.
Refrain
The company of angels
Are praising Thee on High,
And mortal men and all things
Created make reply.
Refrain
The people of the Hebrews
With palms before Thee went;
Our prayer and praise and anthems
Before Thee we present.
Refrain
To Thee, before Thy passion,
They sang their hymns of praise;
To Thee, now high exalted,
Our melody we raise.
Refrain
Thou didst accept their praises;
Accept the prayers we bring,
Who in all good delightest,
Thou good and gracious King.
Refrain
Translator J.M Neale noted “another verse was usually sung until the 17th Century, at the quaintness of which we can scarcely avoid a smile”…:)
Be Thou, O Lord, the Rider,
And we the little ass,
That to God’s holy city
Together we may pass.
Blessing and honor and glory and power,
Wisdom and riches and strength evermore
Give ye to Him Who our battle hath won
Whose are the kingdom, the crown, and the throne.
Into the heav’n of the heav’ns hath He gone,
Sitteth He now in the joy of the throne,
Weareth He now of the kingdom the crown,
Singeth He now the new song with His own.
Soundeth the Heaven of the heavens with His Name;
Ringeth the earth with His glory and fame;
Ocean and mountain, stream, forest, and flower
Echo His praises and tell of His power.
Past are the darkness, the storm, and the war,
Come is the radiance, that sparkles afar,
Breaketh the gleam of the day without end,
Riseth the Sun that shall never descend.
Ever ascendeth the song and the joy;
Ever descendeth the love from on high;
Blessing and honor and glory and praise,
This is the theme of the hymns that we raise.
Life of all life, and true Light of all light,
Star of the dawning unchangingly bright,
Sun of the Salem whose light is the Lamb,
Theme of the ever new, ever glad psalm!
Give we the glory and praise to the Lamb;
Take we the robe and the harp and the palm;
Sing we the song of the Lamb that was slain,
Dying in weakness, but rising to reign.
— Horatius Bonar
—
The King shall come when morning dawns,
And light triumphant breaks;
When beauty gilds the eastern hills,
And life to joy awakes.
Not as of old a little child
To bear, and fight, and die,
But crowned with glory like the sun
That lights the morning sky.
O brighter than the rising morn
When He, victorious, rose,
And left the lonesome place of death,
Despite the rage of foes.
O brighter than that glorious morn
Shall this fair morning be,
When Christ, our King, in beauty comes,
And we His face shall see.
The King shall come when morning dawns,
And earth’s dark night is past;
O haste the rising of that morn,
The day that aye shall last.
And let the endless bliss begin,
By weary saints foretold,
When right shall triumph over wrong,
And truth shall be extolled.
The King shall come when morning dawns,
And light and beauty brings:
Hail, Christ the Lord! Thy people pray,
Come quickly, King of kings.
— Author unknown; translated from Greek to English by John Brownlie, in Hymns of the Russian Church, 1907.
Lo! He comes with clouds descending,
Once for favored sinners slain;
Thousand thousand saints attending,
Swell the triumph of His train:
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
God appears on earth to reign.
Every eye shall now behold Him
Robed in dreadful majesty;
Those who set at naught and sold Him,
Pierced and nailed Him to the tree,
Deeply wailing, deeply wailing,
Shall the true Messiah see.
Every island, sea, and mountain,
Heav’n and earth, shall flee away;
All who hate Him must, confounded,
Hear the trump proclaim the day:
Come to judgment! Come to judgment!
Come to judgment! Come away!
Now redemption, long expected,
See in solemn pomp appear;
All His saints, by man rejected,
Now shall meet Him in the air:
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
See the day of God appear!
Answer Thine own bride and Spirit,
Hasten, Lord, the general doom!
The new Heav’n and earth t’inherit,
Take Thy pining exiles home:
All creation, all creation,
Travails! groans! and bids Thee come!
The dear tokens of His passion
Still His dazzling body bears;
Cause of endless exultation
To His ransomed worshippers;
With what rapture, with what rapture
Gaze we on those glorious scars!
Yea, Amen! let all adore Thee,
High on Thine eternal throne;
Savior, take the power and glory,
Claim the kingdom for Thine own;
O come quickly! O come quickly!
Everlasting God, come down!
— Charles Wesley
Hoping for the best and preparing for the worst…and praying that the hope is vindicated and the preparation needless.
Praying without ceasing, with all psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs,
LATEST UPDATE SO FAR:
LIFE AND DEATH TUG OF WAR
Congressional action spares Terri Schiavo
Judge delays removal of feeding tube after House panel issues subpoenas
—-
Posted: March 18, 2005
1:02 p.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
An eleventh-hour end-run around the court-ordered removal of Terri Schiavo’s life-sustaining feeding tube by members of House and Senate panels has succeeded in sustaining her life beyond today’s scheduled 1 p.m. EST deadline.
Early this morning, the House Government Reform Committee decided to launch an investigation into the case which has ricocheted through the Florida court system for 10 years.
The committee issued subpoenas which order doctors and the administrator at the hospice facility in Pinellas Park, Fla., where the severely brain-damaged woman resides not to remove her feeding tube and keep her alive until the investigation is complete.
At the same time, the Senate Health Committee requested Terri Schiavo and her husband, Michael, appear at an official committee hearing on March 28.
As a result, minutes before the 1 p.m. deadline passed Pinellas Circuit Court Judge David Demers ordered the feeding tube remain in place while presiding Judge George Greer addresses the matter of the congressional subpoenas in a court hearing.
Terri Schiavo responding to her mother in video clip available on terrisfight.org
Fox News reports the subpoenas were issued to Terri Schiavo, her husband, Michael, two of her attending physicians, and the hospice administrator.
The subpoenas direct the recipients to appear at the hospice facility to give testimony to House committee members on March 25 at 10 a.m. EST.
“No things including those things reflecting data, information, or records called for by this request shall be destroyed, modified, transferred, disconnected, discontinued, or otherwise made inaccessible to the Committee,” the subpoenas read, according to Fox, which means the feeding tube must stay in place for another week.
Ignoring the subpoenas would amount to being in contempt of Congress and would incur penalties of fines and or imprisonment.
“This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her parents and friends and the millions of people throughout the world who are praying for her safety,” House Speaker Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Government Reform chairman Tom Davis said in a joint statement. “This fight is not over.”
News of the congressional intervention was well received by some three dozen protesters gathered outside Woodside Hospice for a prayer vigil in support of Terri and her family.
“Bob and Mary Schindler have been praying for a miracle to save their daughter. We believe right now the miracle may come from the middle district, the federal court here in Tampa. The miracle may be these actions taken by the United States Congress,” said David Gibbs, the attorney representing Terri’s parents, who also asked a federal judge in Tampa to block the removal and review the actions of state courts. “We believe Terri’s is a life worth living.”
Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Florida office, told the Associated Press his group’s attorneys were working with Michael Schiavo’s attorneys to determine if the subpoenas would block the scheduled removal of the tube.
“This is clearly an effort to circumvent a lawful court order by a state judge,” Simon said, according to the AP. “I am not sure how a subpoena, which is ordinarily done to produce records or somebody to testify, can essentially have the effect of an injunction overriding the orders of a court.”
The efforts by the House and Senate panels come as lawmakers in both Washington and Tallahassee failed in their attempts to pass legislation to block Michael Schiavo from having the tube pulled over the objections of her parents.
WorldNetDaily reported yesterday, Florida’s state House passed a bill 78-37 that would block withholding of food and water from patients in a persistent vegetative state who didn’t leave a written directive.
Terri Schiavo has no written directive.
A similar measure in the Senate was rejected, however, 21-16.
Also yesterday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill that would delay removal of Schiavo’s feeding tube by moving such a case to federal court. Senate Democrats blocked the legislation, but Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said he would try to pass a separate bill. Lawmakers have postponed their Easter break in order to work on the legislation.
“If you’re going to put somebody to death, or have them starved to death, I would think that you would want a complete neurological exam in reaching that conclusion,” Frist said on the Senate floor. “In fact — this is what I’m told — that she hasn’t had an MRI or PET scan which suggests she has not had a full neurological exam.”
Michael Schiavo won a court order in 2000 to have his wife’s feeding tube removed, claiming she was in a “persistent vegetative state” and had declared orally she wouldn’t want to live in such a condition.
The Schindlers, however, insist their daughter, while severely handicapped, is responsive and demonstrates a strong will to live. Their opinion is buttressed by nearly a dozen sworn affidavits signed by physicians disputing Terri remains in PVS.
Terri Schiavo is not hooked up to any machines, but she requires the small feeding tube for nourishment and hydration.
Terri Schiavo before suffering severe brain damage in 1990.
The 41-year-old collapsed under disputed circumstances Feb. 25, 1990, suffering severe brain damage when her heart stopped momentarily. Michael Schiavo attributes the collapse to an eating disorder, but the Schindlers strongly suspect he tried to strangle her.
The Schindlers have pleaded with Michael Schiavo to divorce their daughter, pointing out he has been living with another woman for 10 years, with whom he has two children.
WND reported a Florida judge rejected a request made earlier this month by the state’s social services agency to investigate alleged abuse by Terri’s estranged husband, who serves as her guardian.
The Department of Children and Families filed a petition containing 30 new allegations of “abuse, neglect or exploitation” the agency said came through its anonymous abuse hot line. The accusations include failure to investigate experimental medical procedures, denial of legal counsel, lack of communication and visitation and lack of therapy.
Michael Schiavo’s attorney, right-to-die advocate George Felos, said the DCF’s attemp to intervene “reeks of political arm-twisting.”
The Schindlers have long sought the removal of Michael Schiavo as Terri’s guardian. Among the family’s complaints are that Michael Schiavo:
Has not allowed therapy or rehabilitation since 1992, despite medical records indicating Terri is responsive.
Has prevented swallowing tests or swallowing therapy since 1993, despite medical testimony Terri can be taught to eat.
Ordered caretakers not to clean Terri’s teeth since 1995, resulting in removal of five teeth in April 2004.
Placed Terri in hospice in 2000, despite the fact she is not terminally ill.
Refuses to allow Terri to leave her room. She has not been outside since 2000.
Has refused to fix her wheelchair since 2000.
Refuses to allow Terri to practice her Catholic faith by attending weekly mass.
Ordered Terri’s shades down at all times.
Ordered doctors not to treat Terri when she had a life threatening infection in 1993 and 1995.
Removes family pictures from Terri’s room, denies flowers from family and friends, denies certain CDs to be played for Terri, and refuses to allow her to listen to music with headphones.
Refuses to release medical information to parents since 1993 despite court order requiring him to do so.
Has limited the visitors list, requiring they must first be approved by him and removes visitors at own discretion. Schiavo removed the Schindlers from the visitors list a total of eight months between 2001 and 2004.
Denies all requests for Terri to attend nursing home functions and refuses to allow therapeutic animals to visit with her, knowing that she is an animal lover.
“Michael claims he loves Terri, and he has said it on numerous occasions, but he treats her in a way I don’t think most of us would treat our own pets,” Bobby Schindler, Terri’s brother, told WND.
If neglect or abuse can be proved, the state can take over guardianship of Terri.
Should lawmakers’ efforts to intervene fail and the feeding tube be removed today, it would be the third time.
In 2003, “Terri’s Law” enabled Gov. Bush to intervene the second time Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube was removed, after she had endured six days of starvation and dehydration.
“Terri’s Law” was later ruled unconstitutional by the Florida Supreme Court, which said it violated the legal separation between the three branches of government.
I believe Terri’s parents should have the final say about her care. They are the ones who have stood by her through all of this and it looks as if they will continue to do so for the rest of her life. This is one of those cases where you really have to either place yourself in their shoes or Terri’s, not her husband. If this was your child and you truly believed she could be helped you would do everything in your power to get her that help and that is just what they are doing. If you were Terri and did not want to live because of your condition you would be severely depressed and not interactive with anyone I don’t think. I think it would help her plight for everyone to see current film shots that show that she is capable of “non vegetative” life. I believe she is but there are a lot of skeptics that it might help to convince too. I would be willing to offer $5 every month for her care. If everyone that is able and believes in her living did the same cost would never be an issue either. Quality of life is how you respond to the world. My mother has had Alzheimers for the past 5 years and has to be fed and everything. You don’t see my Dad trying to starve her to death. He takes care of her 24 hours a day, 7 days a week because he loves her. And there are days, not many, but some where you wouldn’t even know that she is sick and to give up those days would be to give up all hope.
Please stop them from pulling the feeding tubes on,Terry she is not comatose. Her husband should let her family take care of her and get out of the picture. He has gone on with his life. He is no different than Scott Petersen. The Judge is not much better. We are praying for heer and her family.
Please stop them from pulling the feeding tubes on,Terry she is not comatose. Her husband should let her family take care of her and get out of the picture. He has gone on with his life. He is no different than Scott Petersen. The Judge is not much better. We are praying for heer and her family.
Please stop them from pulling the feeding tubes on,Terry she is not comatose. Her husband should let her family take care of her and get out of the picture. He has gone on with his life. He is no different than Scott Petersen. The Judge is not much better. We are praying for heer and her family.
My husband and I think it is horrible to remove the feeding tube and just let Terri die. People who commit horrendus crimes are treated more humanely. i.e. SCOTT PETERSON and the MAN (COUEY)WHO ADMITS TO KILLING JESSICA. What kind of country are we anyway?? It might be different if it was simply (??) a matter of turning off a machine like oxygen or something (altho I have my doubts). Now I read that he has a ‘live-in’ and 2 children with her….Does that tell us something? Does he have to account for and show how the money he received for her care was spent? Yes, good question…why did’nt he just divorce her and leave her care to her family? If she is left to die this horrible death then he should be tried for contributing to her death. May God help Teri and her family. Let us Pray for them. Garcia
My daughter’s on a feeding tube. She’s 17 and has had one since she was 4. She’s a happy girl and enjoys life. She can’t talk well, but she does express herself and she knows everything that people say. Terry should not be starved to death worse than what they do to put a dog away.
Feeding tubes are no more artificial than plates and spoons!!
It’s stunning to think that this country will afford more protection and rights to convicted killers on death row than it will someone in the situation of Terri.
For those who think the federal government shouldn’t get involved, I beg to differ since it’s the PRIMARY responsibility of the government to protect the lives of it’s citizens.
It seems extremely backwards that this country carry’s out the death penalty to convicted criminals in a humane way (lethal injection, it’s over in minutes) and yet so many are able to calmly watch an innocent human being go thru the long and painful death of starvation and dehydration. Don’t we as a nation RUN to the help of those starving in other nations???? Yet, we won’t lift a finger to help this poor woman!!!!!!!
WE WOULDN’T ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN TO AN ANIMAL OR A CONVICTED MURDERER, BUT WILL ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WHO IS DEFENSLESS!
Surely, any truly CLEAR THINKING human being can see the cruelty and backwardness of this event.
GOD HELP US!
The 23rd Psalm — Translated to Terri’s Present Reality !!!
The Lord is Terri’s Shepherd — That’s Relationship !!!
She shall not want — That’s Supply !!!
He maketh her to lie down in green pastures — That’s Rest !!!
He leadeth her beside the still waters — That’s Refreshment !!!
He restoreth her soul — That’s Healing !!!
He leadeth her in the paths of righteousness — That’s Guidance !!!
For His name sake — That’s Purpose !!!
Yea, though Terri walk through the valley of the shadow of death — That’s Testing !!!
She will fear no evil — That’s Protection !!!
For Thou art with her — That’s Faithfulness !!!
Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort her — That’s Discipline !!!
Thou preparest a table before Terri in the presence of her enemies— That’s Hope !!!
Thou annointest her head with oil — That’s Consecration !!!
Her cup runneth over — That’s Abundance !!!
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow Terri all the days of her life — That’s Blessing !!!
And she will dwell in the house of the Lord — That’s Security!!!
Forever — That’s Eternity !!!
Congressional Subpoena — That’s Deliverance !!!
Face it —- The Lord is crazy about Terri !!!
Otherwise — Why else would He continuously deliver her from
the evil hands of her attempted murderers ???
The always feisty Tom Delay had some harsh words for a few senators for adjourning without considering passage of the Protection of Incapacitated Persons Act of 2005. Read his words below, which I found on a post at FreeRepublic.
To: National Desk
Contact: Dan Allen or Shannon Flaherty,
202-225-4000, both of the Office of
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay
WASHINGTON, March 18 /U.S. Newswire/ — House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) today delivered the following remarks at a press availability on the House of Representatives’ efforts to save the life of Terri Schiavo:
“It is now one o’clock on the East Coast, the time preordained by a Florida state judge to allow for denial of food and water to Terri Schiavo. This act of barbarism can be, and must be, prevented. The Senate has before it the Protection of Incapacitated Persons Act of 2005. This bill is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, they have chosen to adjourn rather than pass it.
“Those senators responsible for blocking the bill yesterday afternoon, Senators Boxer, Wyden, and Levin, have put Mrs. Schiavo’s life at risk to prove a point – an unprecedented profile in cowardice. The American people are not interested in squabbles between Republicans and Democrats, or between the House and Senate. They care, and we care, about saving Terri Schiavo’s life. The House bill will do that.
“Terri Schiavo is alive. She is not ‘barely alive.’ She is not ‘being kept alive.’ She is as alive as you or I, and as such we have a moral obligation to protect and defend her from the fate premeditated by the Florida courts. This is not over. We are still working, so are Mrs. Schiavo’s lawyers, and so is the Florida state legislature. This is not over.
“To friends, family, and millions of people praying around the world this Palm Sunday weekend: do not be afraid. Terri Schiavo will not be forsaken.”
regarding the terri schiavo case, it’s interesting to me that the same crybabies who defend every convicted killer who’s been sentenced to death, under the guise that killing them is inhumane, have nothing to say about an innocent woman who’s set to be starved to death.
i guess if terri had murdered a few people, and the state was preparing to do to her what her husband wants done, then we’d have some outrage from the anti-death penalty crowd. but no, she’s just a disabled person who needs care, so the usually loud and obnoxious liberals are silent. or even worse, these phonies support the husband’s side.
myself, i believe in the death penalty, but only for people who’ve been tried by a jury of their peers, convicted, and sentenced to die. i don’t support selfish men starving their disabled wives to death. but i do have an interesting proposal. since the ACLU and certain judges have decided that a man can legally deny his wife food and water, in effect, starving her to death, then i propose that we handle all death row cases in this manner.
in other words, when the people on death row have exhausted their appeals, let’s just cut off all food and water to them. since pro-euthanasia advocates claim that denial of food and water is a painless way to go, then it can’t possibly be cruel and unusual punishment. no more electrocution, lethal injections, firing squads, or hangings. just stop feeding them and giving them water.
if michael schiavo is allowed to starve his wife to death, and the bleeding heart liberals who have so much concern for lab animals and snail darters, have nothing to say in opposition, then i say we’ve got the green light to go ahead and start killing death row inmates this way also.
well let’s try & keep this in context as an overseas viewer of this..the poor woman terri has been in this state for 15 years if it was me i would have wanted the feeding mechanism pulled at least 14 years ago. Money & greed does seem to be an USA THING If you are all so worried about what the bible sais & starvation–why not go & help the maimed & injured in Iraq & other countries that your govt has helped into poverty & despair. I do feel for the family but sounds like they can’t let go of terri or the money or the lawyers either.. if you really do believe in your God let her go to heaven where she won’t rely or depend on anyone Get over it-Terri surely deserves this…
Oh Linda, how smug and cold your words are.
There isn’t enough room here to tell you how MUCH America has done for the poor and down trodden of this world. But, you all ready know that…it’s just easier to spew hatred and stupidity.
Obviously the part of the world you come from has allready embrassed the culture of death and probably find it hard to understand how people who believe in the rights of others to live, feel.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TERRI FEELS OR WHAT HER WISHES ARE. Why don’t you spend some time researching the whole situation BEFORE you post such ignorant statements.
I do feel sorry for people like you…how cold and empty your souls are.
IF YOU WERE ABLE TO THINK CLEARLY, you would know that it is her husband who stands to inherit the money won thru the courts that was suppose to go for her care. NO OTHER PERSON will beneifit monetarily but the husband…DO YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH???? HE is the one who is acting with greed. You make no sense.
Linda,
Your ignorance is truly surpassed only by your arrogance.
It’s easy to support what is happening to Terri since it’s her, not you. I don’t for a minute believe a word of your claim that if you were in her position you would want to subjected to the arguably slow, most undiginified, inhumane and torturous death to which she is presently condemned by 3 morally bankrupt excuses for “men”.
Your advice to shrug off as nothing the torturing to death of an innocent (and sentient, if handicapped) human being, and then reference such behavior as consistent with, and expressive of, biblical faith shows that you neither know nor care anything about the faith you in which you presume to instruct us…any more than you know or care, in any meaningful way, about Terri or anyone else besides yourself.
As for the likelihood of her wanting the tube unhooked long before now, it probably would have been had her anti-husband allowed her to have the rehabilitative therapy & humane care that he has, for the last 15 years, so deliberately, premeditatedly, and destructively withheld from her. She would probably be able to swallow and eat normally, and speak better than she does now (no doubt his main fear). In that case, she would want the tube unhooked, and should have her wish respected; but there is no reason to believe that unhooking it under her present circumstances is either her desire or in her best interests.
But if you’ll take the word of her patently fraudulent, perfidious infidel “husband” as a valid reflection of her wishes or best interests, I know of some folks who’d just love to talk with you about swampland in Florida, bridges in New York, and the like, ASAP.
Terri is judicially innocent of any capital offense, so she does not deserve to be executed at all, much less in the heinous, inhumane manner forced upon her.
You are far too alienated (emotionally as well as geographically) from and indifferent to what her family has sacrificed and is experiencing to lay the slightest claim to “feel for them”. The only thing you feel toward them is despicience for being the greedy, grasping Americans your bigotry has caricatured them to be in your thoughtless mind. Her family loves her, therefore they see her as she is and truly care about her; and they do not deserve the calumnious, cruel aspersions you have cast upon them in their time of excruciating trial. It’s a trial that a heartless, mindless jade like you can’t even begin to fathom, so do them a favor and retract your outrageous remarks about them.
Oh, and Linda, if money and greed are, as you say, “a USA thing”, how do you explain Saddam Hussein (responsible for so much of the suffering and starvation in Iraq…you have written and reprimanded him, haven’t you? What? You mean Bush & the American troops have done more that you to free the Iraqis and improve their overall situation? Imagine that!) Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and other megalomaniacs who killed millions of innocent, honest people mainly to confiscate and control their possessions? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Linda?
BARBARITY IN AMERICA
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
I never believed that I would live in a country that would, in effect, execute a brain-damaged woman who never hurt anyone in her life. The story of Terri Schiavo should outrage every decent American. While our soldiers valiantly fight and die across the sea so complete strangers can enjoy human rights, here at home an American woman who suffered severe brain damage 15 years ago is being subjected to death by dehydration and starvation by order of a judge. Today, her feeding tube was removed.
The humanity of every society is determined first and foremost by how it treats its most helpless citizens, and a nation that is prepared to murder a feeble and vulnerable woman who can breathe but not eat on her own must take a deeper look at the source of its ethics.
Before Hitler came for the J(e)ws and the gypsies, he first came after the mentally handicapped. He offered this rationale for euthanasia: “In nature, there is no pity for the lesser creatures when they are destroyed so that the fittest may survive. Going against nature brings ruin to man. It is only J(e)wish impudence to demand that we overcome nature.” Hitler, who was a committed evolutionist and applied the ruthless principals of natural selection to the human species, opposed “artificial” means of keeping the infirm alive. The species was strengthened when its weakest constituents perished, just as nature decreed.
Charles Darwin expressed his own belief in stronger and more feeble parts of the human family when he famously wrote, “The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world.”
Thankfully, the United States does not derive its ethics from Darwin, but from Sinai. We do not believe in the quality of life, but in its sanctity. Since Hitler was the enemy of life, he despised not just Judaism, but Christianity, which in turn embraced the biblical idea of the infinite value of every human life and how each individual, regardless of the degree of brain cognition, was possessed of the divine.
Hitler famously said, “The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. … The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.” Hitler spent much of his table talk, faithfully recorded by Martin Bormann, attacking Judeo-Christian ethics: “This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the state, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the J(e)ws.”
How the United States could today devalue the life of the infirm by removing a brain-damaged woman’s feeding tube, and unwittingly ally itself with the euthanasia program of the history’s foremost monster, should send shivers down the spine of every American.
But biblical ethics aside, there is also common sense and logic. Should we really take what might have been a throw-away comment from a wife to her husband about not wanting to live in a vegetative state as the rationale to murder a human being? Apparently, Terri and her husband were watching some film about a person in a coma when Terri told her husband she would never want to live like that. But people make comments like that during movies all the time without really meaning them.
And even if Terri Schiavo expressly wanted to die, does that mean we should kill her? Dr. Kevorkian is sitting in prison for the rest of his life precisely because he killed people who wished to die. How is this different?
And what jurisdiction should Terri’s husband, Michael, have here? He maintains that he is fighting to remove his wife’s feeding tube to keep his pledge to her that she be allowed to die with dignity.
Now this is curious. The husband has taken other pledges to his wife, which apparently are far less meaningful to him. For example, in marrying her, he pledged to stand by her “in sickness and in health.” Yet, many years ago he abandoned Terri, moved in with his girlfriend and had children with this other woman. Apparently, his pledge of sexual fidelity did not mean much to him, either.
Now, I’m not suggesting that Michael Schiavo should have remained celibate for the last 15 years, and I understand the need for human companionship. But he could easily have divorced Terri and left her in her parents’ care rather than cheating on her and having children out of wedlock. But staying married to your wife just to ensure that she dies sounds a lot to me like wanting to inherit her estate. But honestly, which sane judge, in this case Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer, would allow a man who is living with, and has children with, another woman, to make life-and-death decisions concerning his wife? This is a shocking affront to basic decency.
Furthermore, Judge Greer accepted the opinion of doctors who said Ms. Schiavo, 41, is in a “persistent vegetative state,” the definition of which, according to the New York Times, is “damage to her cerebral cortex [that] has made her incapable of emotion, memory or thought.”
But woe to a nation that determines that the sanctity of life is determined by a capacity to feel emotion, memory or thought. Before he died, Ronald Reagan was so ravaged by Alzheimer’s that he had lost all memory and all capacity for cognitive thought. But could one only imagine a sane individual arguing that Reagan should have been denied food years before his 2004 death because he had become worthless? The same applies to millions of the elderly who inhabit our homes for the aged. A great many do nothing but sit in a chair or lie in bed with scarcely movement or memory. How far are we from a time when calls will go forth to deny them all food as well?
What comes to mind in the story of Terri Schiavo is the famous quotation of Pastor Martin Niemöller concerning moral failure in the face of the Nazis: “First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the J(e)ws, but I was not a J(e)w, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.” Terry Schiavo has no voice, so we must become her voice.
I shudder for my country to think that such acts of barbarity can take place in the world’s foremost democracy and humanity’s guarantor of liberty and freedom.
–Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
I think that God knows when it is our time to go and when he is ready he will let Terry go. So leave her alone and let her live as long as he will let her….
coleen
of course we should keep feeding terri, as we do elderly people who can no longer hold a spoon, or newborns who can’t feed themselves yet.
having done all that we can do to help someone like terri who is disabled, then i agree that God will take her when He is ready to do so. but we should love and care for terri as long as she is alive – that is the humane way. disconnecting her from food and water is murder.
Calling upon all of our old rescue friends:
Immediate Call To Action:
A Bottle of Water for Terri
Grassboots.Org is calling on all those who cannot go to Florida to support Terri Schiavo to take a bottle of water to your statehouse or county courthouse on Tuesday March 22, or Wednesday March 23, 2005 with a note calling on those in authority to immediately do something to save Terri Schiavo. If Terri’s feeding tube is not restored today, we must rise up. If they can do it in the Ukraine and Lebanon then we can do it here. Use your imagination. If the offices are closed you can create a landmark of bottles with each family member leaving one. Call your local press.
Some Options:
1. Call on President Bush to Issue an Executive Order and Use Federal Marshals to Enforce It (Clinton used this power to post marshals with arresting authority outside abortion mills)
2. Call on the US Senate or House to enforce their previously served subpoenas with Federal Marshals.
3. Call on Jeb Bush to Call out the National Guard or Sheriffs to personally Rescue Terri. The DHS (Human Services, Children and Family Services, etc) in almost any other state could remove a child from somebody’s home with little trouble.
4. Be Creative. The idea of calling Terri to a committee hearing was brilliant and someone else might be able to come up with something even better. But we must hurry.
Please copy the information and send it to your email lists and to all the conservative media outlets you can think of.
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.”
(Proverbs 29:2)
You are right. Starving her is cruel. We should have euthenasia and help her to fulfill her wishes with no pain. We give more compassion to dogs and cats.
Gabriel
I’m just curious to find out where people have found their information on this case. I’ve heard bits and pieces but wish to know something concrete. Has anyone here met Terri? If she is truly able to respond to people, and make purposeful noises in communication attempts, then she isn’t brain dead or comatose or a vegetable. Right?
Curious one,
There are many posts on this thread, which will fill you in on the history of this case. The official Schindler family website is terrisfight.org.
An excellent source of updates and related articles (as well as general online news) is worldnetdaily.com.
To Gabriel,
Considering that Terri has survived two previous attempts to murder her by starvation and 15 years of emotional abuse at the hands of Michael Schiavo and goons, this is strong evidence of an even stronger will to live on Terri’s part.
Furthermore, she is judicially innocent of any real capital offense, so she does not deserve to be executed besides, very evidently not wanting to die.
Even if she wanted to at one time, or even could be proven to want to now, this would not make it right to kill her. Not everything someone wants at some point is good for them, or for society as a whole. The distance between “volitional euthanasia” (killing those who at some time indicate such an inclination) and non-volitional (killing those who don’t) is very, very short; just ask any Auschwitz survivor.
Oh, and that reminds me, to anyone interested in protecting innocent Americans (for starters) from all manner of brutal injustices…here is an excellent piece on the ethical aspects of living wills:
BEWARE OF SO-CALLED LIVING WILLS!
From Flip Benham with comments by Steve Mashburn
“You shall not murder.” Exodus 20:13
Sunday afternoon Flip and I discussed the current crisis in Clearwater, Florida with Terri Schiavo and the issue of so-called living wills. It is our firm conviction at Operation Rescue/Operation Save America that living wills are extremely dangerous and should be viewed by Christians with extreme caution. We are opposed to “living wills.” Giving a person food and water through a tube is not a “heroic action” to resuscitate a person who is brain dead. A person giving a directive to remove a feeding tube when they can otherwise live on their own is asking the rest of us to assist them in suicide. God would never have us murder you!
We understand terrible situations in which a person may be brain dead, unable to respond at all and the body kept alive only by machines with no chance of recovery. Such cases require prayer and good medical counsel as the decision to remove the machines may very well be God’s will. Terri Schiavo is not anywhere near such a situation yet her crisis is being used by the “right to die” crowd and other enemies of life to create a rush for everyone to obtain a “living will” or other advanced directive.
Beware Christians! This deception is from the pit of hell and is even catching dear friends in Christian leadership such as Dr. James Dobson in its claws. Take heed how you hear brothers and sisters. God help us, especially our leaders in Christian and secular media!
Too see this danger we need to look no further than our dear sister Liz Thomas who several weeks ago spent a couple of weeks on a respirator to keep her alive in intensive care. Doctors gave Liz no chance for recovery yet this precious mother of 10 and wife went home with her family this past Friday after three months in the hospital. A “living will” stating that no heroic action be taken could have been wrongly interpreted and used by unscrupulous doctors to take Liz’s fate into their own hands even over her husband Rusty Thomas’s objections.
The Hemlock Society must be dancing with glee, their hands raised in the air as even Christian leaders on Christian air waves tell us all to go to an attorney and have a “living will” drawn up. After years of battling Jack Kavorkian in court cases, attorney Constance Cumby stated at a lecture in Wichita, KS, “a living will is a dead give-away. If I need air, I want to be given air. If I need food and water, I want to be given food and water.”
Constance Cumby is right! We live in a society where doctors routinely tell new parents that their baby is handicapped with little chance to live or at least live a normal life and it would be best if they let doctors disconnect the respirator or let the baby die of starvation. I cannot count the number of Christian parents that have told me these doctors’ evil counsel while their children are alive and blessed today. The abortion industry pulls in millions through such pre-natal counseling — Just look at Wichita abortionist George Tiller. Terri Schiavo has been God’s wake up call to America.
The culture of death that surrounds us today is dangerous. In Holland elderly people are terrified of going to the hospital for even minor reasons. In a State where murder by assisted suicide is legal, any two doctors can determine your quality of life, outlook for the future and you can be legally murdered. If you don’t think it can happen here you are wrong. You quite possibly might be dead wrong in the not too distant future. Indeed the groundwork is being paved now through “living wills.”
I am a quadriplegic with Social Security Disability as my only income and Medicare & state Medicaid pay for me to receive home based health care in my own home and community. Each year in keeping with state law the SRS visits me and reviews my eligibility and needs. One question they ask every single year has haunted me for the past decade. That question is this. “Do you have a living will or any advanced directive?”
Why do you suppose the State wants to know if I have a “living will” and to what end? Could it possibly have anything to do with state law requiring me to give a copy of any such document if I receive state Medicaid funds? Medicaid & Medicare only pay 35—45 percent of doctor and hospital bills. Considering that sky-rocketing costs of both Medicare and Medicaid were targeted for cuts even by President Bush this year, I would say the State has a vested interest in directing what health care services I and other persons with disabilities receive. State lawmakers are no different.
Faced with a choice of much higher taxes or cutting off health care funding to the elderly and infirm, which do you think the generation of abortion on demand will choose? The compassionate conservatives in the Republican Party argue for cuts to heath care for poor adults over higher taxes. The slippery slope that abortion started us down is about to pick up speed if Christians do not speak up and act now.
One need look no further than the plight of Terri Schiavo for convincing evidence of an imminent Final Solution plot for the future in America. Death has become the solution for those individuals that may inconvenience us in America from abortion to the disabled. Now add the specter of “Living Wills” in which doctors determine your chances of recovery and “quality of life” then decide whether you or I die. A simple case of pneumonia requiring a few days in the hospital on a respirator could be a death sentence for you made possible by drawing up a “living will” by none other than you yourself!
As the persecution of Christians in the media, a growing number of courts and a hostile society ignorant of God’s Law grows even less tolerant of born again Christians, we need to know that like in Nazi Germany we are very likely a target in the crosshairs of God-haters. The State will be looking for opportunities to rid society of unwanted Christians. Lawyers are drawing up those excuses to murder those we inconvenience and a few of our Christian leaders are unwisely and unknowingly advising us to give the State the legal means and permission.
Oh dear Christian can you not see the danger in such open “living will” documents? Doctors, lawyers and judges are being quoted in the media saying that non-heroic methods such as supplying food and water classify as a reason to murder someone. Perhaps you would prefer not to live that way but you have absolutely no right to ask us to murder you. No matter what our nation’s courts decide God still calls helping another person commit suicide murder. God’s court is Supreme and there is no appeal beyond Him. Christians especially need to avoid such legal documents and use extreme caution in such prior decisions with our loved ones. Do not let a “living will” be your dead give-away.
“Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding.” Proverbs 14:7
Here’s another clinical opinion worth considering (if anyone seriously doubts its premise…)
TERRI SCHIAVO’S HUSBAND FITS PROFILE OF WIFE ABUSER, PER PSYCHIATRIST
“As Terri Schiavo starves to death, it is time to alert more lawmakers to the truth: the wrong person is being ‘punished’ for Terri Schiavo’s current state,” says Carole Lieberman, M.D. a Board Certified Psychiatrist on the Clinical Faculty of UCLA. Having interviewed Terri’s father on her radio show (“Dr. Carole’s Couch” on voiceamerica.com), Dr. Lieberman uncovered the fact that Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, fits the profile of a wife-abuser — the same profile that fit O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson. At Terri’s father’s request, Dr. Lieberman put her opinion in writing (see below) so that the family could provide it to their attorneys, Governor Jeb Bush and Florida DCFS — who subsequently have begun investigating the possibility (supported by medical records and witnesses) that Michael Schiavo may well be the one responsible for the collapse that Terri suffered 15 years ago. Even offers of $1 million were not enough for Michael to take the risk of Terri being around ‘to talk’. “Since writing my preliminary opinion, further information has come to light that continues to support this position. Unless this travesty of justice is stopped, the answer will truly lie where the bones are buried,” warns Dr. Lieberman.
July 12, 2004
PRELIMINARY THOUGHTS ON HOW TERRI SCHIAVO’S HUSBAND, MICHAEL, FITS THE PROFILE OF A WIFE ABUSER
Based upon my interviews of Terri’s father, Robert Schindler, and my research into media accounts of her case, I can provide the following preliminary opinions at this time:
–As the author of the book, Bad Boys: Why We Love Them, How to Live with Them and When to Leave Them, I have studied men who exhibit pathology in their relationships with women. Profiles of the twelve different types of bad boys are explained. Michael Schiavo fits the profile, described in the book as the Prince of Darkness (see chapter 13). O.J. Simpson was cited as a classic example of this type, and there are indeed similarities between the two men. It is especially significant to note that O.J. flew into a homicidal rage when he realized that Nicole was totally abandoning him, as is characteristic of these impulsive men who most dread being abandoned by their woman. Similarly, Michael Schiavo was likely to have known that Terri had begun making plans to divorce him, since she had told a coworker and family member. Stalking is characteristic of this type of man, as well. And a girlfriend of Michael’s, Cindy, accused him of stalking her in 2001.
–Terri’s personality fits that of a woman who would have been attracted (and attractive) to such a man. She was a loner as a child. In high school she was overweight and not popular with boys. She had low self-esteem. She was extremely compassionate, nurturing and subservient. They met when Terri was 20 years old, and married by the time she was 21. Such whirlwind courtships are typical of these men, who are able to spot a vulnerable woman they can dominate, and eager to seal her commitment to him.
Terri was frightened to object to Michael’s pathologically controlling behavior. For example, he would monitor her odometer to control where she went. He tried to isolate her from her friends and family. She had to account for every penny, though they often lived on her income, since he would be fired, sometimes only after two weeks. He would splurge on $400 suits for himself, while she had to economize. He called her at work 3-4 times a day, often complaining of hating his job because no one appreciated him. He was often observed scolding her.
–Terri’s family observed black and blue marks on her before the incident that plunged her into her current state. Medical records and/or experts have revealed that her neck injury was consistent with strangulation. A bone scan revealed multiple fractures occurring within 1-2 months before or after the incident, which has been described as equivalent to her being “hit by a mach truck”. Michael has given three different explanations of how he found Terri after the incident.
–Michael has had Terri’s j(e)welry re-set into a ring for himself. Terri had two beloved cats that she adopted from an animal shelter, where they’d landed after being mistreated. When he moved in with his girlfriend, Cindy, he had Terri’s cats euthanized. Psychologically, this is symbolic of what he is trying to do now to Terri.
–Michael has been under psychiatric care, including being prescribed several psychotropic medications. One of his treating therapists, Dr. Peter Kaplan, told Terri’s father that he should have called the police after Michael argued with Terri’s sister, Susanne, and Michael tried to attack her. This occurred right after Terri’s collapse, when they were all in a house together. Terri’s father told Susanne to lock her door and keep a hammer nearby.
–As a psychiatric expert witness, I have had experience performing psychiatric examinations of men like Michael Schiavo, and testifying in court about similar cases. The above is simply meant to illustrate some of the indications that Michael fits the profile of an abusive husband. He should most definitely be investigated as the perpetrator of the ‘incident’ that caused Terri’s collapse and her current condition. If Terri were to be allowed to die, as Michael has been desperately struggling to achieve for years, it could help him escape detection. This would be a grave miscarriage of justice.
Dr. Lieberman is the psychiatrist who instigated the investigation into Michael Jackson’s current accuser.
WARNING FROM HOLLAND: FLORIDA ‘S TERRI SCHIAVO CASE
STRONG EUTHANASIA WARNING FROM HOLLAND / February 23, 2005
By Dr. Bert P. Dorenbos, President Schreeuw om Leven (Cry for Life) Hilversum , Holland
FLORIDA ‘S TERRI CASE OPENS THE DOOR FOR EUTHANASIA IN THE USA
Florida’s 2nd Court of Appeal has ordered that Mrs. Terri Schindler-Schiavo’s feeding tube be removed. That tube provides her with essential nutrition and hydration.
The request for this decision came from Mrs. Schiavo’s husband Michael. Medical evidence and information given by Mrs. Schiavo’s parents and other visitors prove that ending her life is a violation of Mrs. Schiavo’s human rights.
The Supreme Court Decision bans euthanasia in the United States of America . This Florida Court decision opens the (flood)gate of subjective decision making in cases of life and death.
At the moment that, in the Dutch debate on euthanasia, a court ruled that withholding food and fluid is a permissible medical treatment the road was paved for the Euthanasia Law that is in force in Holland now. It was in the case of Mrs. Ineke Stinissen, who had been in coma for several years that a Dutch court ruled in 1990 that food and fluid could be withheld from her. As is the case of Mrs. Schiavo, this was at the request of her husband. Mrs. Stinissen died shortly afterwards from starvation.
Since then the discussion about the termination of life has no longer been based on objective facts on the terminal illness in the life of a patient, but more and more on a subjective approach to the quality of that patient’s life and the subjective view of professional and non professional persons about the right to life or death.
National Constitutions, the International Declaration on Human Rights, the recent United Nations Declarations are all based on the universal protection of the life of a person whatever his circumstances are and without any form of discrimination. In medical circles it is still accepted that, based on the historical Hippocratic Oath, a medical doctor will never apply his skill to kill a person.
It is not without reason that the United Nations Human Rights Commission has questioned the Dutch Government expressing its members’ concern on the subjective regulations in the Dutch Euthanasia law which allows a doctor to kill a patient. These questions are still not answered.
In Holland the debate has not stopped with the introduction of the euthanasia law but it is even increasing because doctors are still not willing to report their euthanasia cases. Patients are not sure if the doctor helps to kill or to cure. The Dutch Euthanasia Law is a very dangerous example to follow.
It is extremely important that those organisations who support the Supreme Court decision to ban Euthanasia take action against this Florida Court Decision. An appeal should be made.
We are available to help to answer your questions and to testify in this case.
Dr. Bert P. Dorenbos, President Schreeuw om Leven (Cry for Life) Hilversum, Holland
gabriel
what are terri’s wishes? do you know? we know what her philandering husband who refuses to spend a dime helping her with any therapy (but chooses to spend thousands trying to litigate her death) wants, but we don’t know what terri wants.
your posts are such sophistry. try thinking before typing, gabriel.
Save Terry!
If she is killed, she shouldn’t be starved and dehydrated, that would give her a horrible and painful death.
There Must be alternatives.!!!!!!!!!!!!
Save her
WHAT IF TERRI WANTS TO LIVE? —-
Posted: March 22, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Just what is it that so earnestly motivates those who zealously want Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube to be removed? While there are plenty of exceptions, I dare say that most people in this camp are not driven by constitutional concerns, despite their hollow protests to the contrary.
As my brother Rush cogently noted, it is easy to understand what drives those who want to save Terri’s life: the human urge to protect and save the life of another human being. The motivation of those fighting with equal fervor to remove the tube is not so self-evident.
The more I read about this case, the more it weighs on me — the more a creeping feeling of horror sweeps over me. If, in fact, Terri Schiavo wants to live and is going to be denied that right, the prospect of a court-ordered removal of her feeding tube is no less horrifying than that of a person being buried alive.
If Terri truly wants to live — as a lawyer visiting with her when her feeding tube was removed avers — how could any caring person wish death upon her? The question is not whether we think we would want to live in Terri’s state, but whether in fact she wants to. Are those advocating Terri’s death allowing themselves to consider that this woman truly wants to live — just like they do?
I doubt I’ll ever be able to understand, much less relate to, the sympathies of certain people. Generally speaking, they seem to feel more compassion for wildlife than animals, more for animals than human beings, more for guilty human beings than innocent ones, more for Communist dictators and tyrannical thugs than freedom fighters, and more for the vindication of an abstract principle devaluing human life than for an actual human being like Terri Schiavo, who, though severely disabled, may truly want to live.
How can we possibly view in a favorable light the position of those who protest to save the lives of convicted killers on death row and who bend over backward to believe their most incredible stories of innocence, but won’t lift a finger in support of Terri Schiavo and won’t even momentarily consider that Terri wants to live? Where are the “Free Mumia” chanters when Terri needs them?
I realize some believe that many advocating for Terri’s life are using her for their own political purposes and that even Terri’s parents, the Schindlers, are putting their own selfish wishes to keep Terri alive above those of Terri herself.
But do we actually believe that loving parents — parents who would eagerly trade places with Terri in an instant — would place their own comfort above their daughter’s? If not, how can we possibly believe they would fight to prolong her suffering? In examining this case from a distance, isn’t it much easier to believe Terri’s parents’ assessment of her desire to continue living than that of her adulterous husband, whose conflict of interest should disqualify him from guardianship in this case and participation in this decision?
And isn’t the essential argument of those wanting the tube removed that Terri’s wishes ought to be honored? Since Terri left no legal document directing her death in these circumstances, shouldn’t the system require clear and convincing evidence that Terri indeed would want to die in these circumstances? Yet the court is relying on the hearsay evidence of Terri’s estranged husband, Michael.
The question is whether as a society we want to resolve these very difficult, doubtful cases in favor of death.
I detect more than a bit of intellectual dishonesty among many favoring Terri’s death. They are claiming they merely want to honor Terri’s wishes, yet they rely on her tainted husband, callously discount the testimony of her loving parents, blindly accept the disinformation that Terri is in a purely vegetative state, and ignore multiple firsthand accounts, including from examining physicians and nurses, that Terri is responsive, sometimes animated, and definitely wants to go on living.
Could it be that something besides Terri’s wishes motivates many of the death-soldiers, such as an allegiance to the culture of death, or some abject, inhumane resentment that we spend so much money keeping severely disabled people alive? I’ve received appalling e-mails from people complaining about the financial burden to society of keeping Terri alive.
I’m not pointing fingers at anyone specifically, because I know that many who want the tube removed are motivated by their perceived compassion for Terri and even honoring Terri’s wishes. But I fear that many arguing for tube removal are doing so with complete disregard for Terri’s actual wishes in this case. To the extent that is going on, we are witnessing up-close the face of evil.
We must fight on. … More prayers for Terri.
— David Limbaugh
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
NOTE: While Limbaugh’s article makes may fine points, many people have pointed to the absence of a written directive as a primary reason not to kill Terri. But what if she had left such a directive? It would still be wrong to murder her. This is being hyped to make a euthanasia holocaust palatable to America, just as “choice” was cynically used to make the abortion holocaust socially more acceptable than deplorable. Folks, don’t forget: the distance between “volitional” euthanasia and non-volitional is almost non-existant. Ask any survivor of the Nazi Holocaust.
Make no mistake; this is not only a vicious attack on Terri Schiavo, but on Judeo-Christian sanctity of life morality, and the basic human rights upheld in the U.S. Constitution. THIS “WRITTEN DIRECTIVE/LIVING WILL” MADNESS IS PURE PRO-DEATH PROPAGANDA. DON’T BUY THE LIE.
My personal opinion on the Terri Sivo case is they need to let her LIVE and pull the plug on someone that has commitede a crime not someone that has never commited any kind of offence and shes not aloud to eat or drink but someone that has takin not only takin but raped a 9 year old little girl and killed her than took her body and treated like she was nobody(thats not even including Carlie Brusica her killer is able to eat 3 HOT MEALS a day)Now u tell me what in the hell is wrong with this picture???????????????
Angela,
I’ll tell you “what the *&ll is wrong with this picture”.
Jesus said in the last days that right would be called wrong and wrong would be called right, but woe unto those who call right wrong.
Old Michael Schiavo and his buddies have some serious “woe” coming to them someday. God says vengance is His, and HE WILL REPAY!
So sorry Louise, Dr. Hammesfahr has been published, but don’t want to confuse you with the facts. Not to mention he is a NOBEL PRIZE NOMINEE.
How many of those have you got little Louise????
Louise,
Did it ever occur to you that one reason death-promoting views are sometimes deleted from this site is that the webmaster & ORW have what are known as consciences, and therefore aversions to feeding the reading public toxic fare?
But it is very convenient, isn’t it, Louise, to resort to ad hominem attack on messengers such as
Lieberman and Hammesfahr when you can’t substantively refute their messages?
Her views may not be infallible, but they are considerably more reasonable, humane & likely to be valid than your cheap shots.
This is such a horrible subject…to be talking about fighting to keep a “person” alive. Let me ask you – if you contracted cancer – would you want someone coming along & telling you that “yes, we have medications that would save your life & yes we have radiation, etc.,but you are not going to be allowed to be treated nor are you going to be allowed to live”..(?)…Just because!!! Well -this to me is basically the same situation – Terri is unable to swallow due to something that happened during the original medical problem but she does not rely on machines to keep her alive. She takes each breath on her own….she reacts, she smiles, she laughs…. she is NOT brian dead – NO- far from it. What right does her husband or a judge or anyone …… “ANYONE” have to take her life from her???? God is the only power that should decide this and so far God has not taken her from us. Let me ask you – if you had no ability to feed yourself … Perhaps you had no arms or hands or even fingers, would you want to be in this same situation?? I have taught & worked with people who are mentally & physically challenged…this does not mean that they should die. What is this world coming to??? I PRAY and I will continue to pray for her parents to “win” this battle ..a battle that should not be happening to begin with. And it angers me that I must say the words “WIN” & “BATTLE” while talking about Terri Schiavo – a PERSON who has the right to life – just as you & I have that same right. Please read more on this – you will see many things that are not right – the facts about her husband are something that scares the heck out of me. Too many things are not right with this. Why did it take him all of these years to “remember” that Terri wanted to die if she would ever be in this situation. And I am sure that if Terri knew that she was living without assistance other than a feeding tube & that her death sentence would be starvation & pain – I am sure that she would NEVER have agreed with this form of death. Remember Terri is NOT o
n any form of life support. She reacts to things ..she IS NOT brain dead, although many of us seem to think that she is in a vegiataive state (thank you media) SHE IS NOT!!!! She is a living person with brain damamge. Many Many people live with brain damamge everyday. As I said – I am praying. thank you, DJ – march 22nd 2005
sorry – I was so upset that my spelling was not very good – “vegitative” and “damage(d)”
Why is it a crime to starve an animal and spend time in jail (mind you) but its okay to starve a human.I also want to know who this jude thinks he is playing god how can he have the right to say weather she should live or not I say if her TRUE FAMILY is willing to take on the responseability of let them do it they brought her in this world let them say if she should go or not its clear they love their child and will do what they have to,to save her.Besides being starved to death isnt just dieind its murder
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
(Matthew 25: 41-46)
If its okay for that judge that knows nothing about Terri Shivo to make an order for her feeding tube to be removed and to order such a painful DEATH(because its not just dieing its MURDER ITS DEATH) I think that us as US citizens should order that the judges that order her feeding tube be removed I think we should take his right to live away because hes not on any artifical breathing tubes and netheir is Terri My other point is just because a little baby cant feed themself and someone has to help feed them should they be senteced to death. To by starvation NO then what in the hell is the difference betwwen her and a child that cant feed his or herself that child is breathing on there own SO IS TERRI LET HER LIVE FOR GODS SAKES(besides I have a ? for that judge what if that was your wife or child would u want them to go through that painful DEATH becasuse if u look at it in the terms it should be looked at ITS MURDER but now the judge has made it legal to murder and noone noone suffers but Terri(I also think about that micheal As*hole(her so called husband that loves her(yeah right)he needs to BUT THE HELL OUT move on with his life like he already has and let her parents someone that REALLY TRULEY LOVES HER take care of her.LEAVE HER ALONE LET HER BE WITH HER TRUE FAMILY SHE DESERVES TO LIVE SHE HASNT DONE ANYTHING TO ANYBODY TO BE STARVED TO DEATH.Besides there has been people like her in that situation for 30 yrs. and have still made it and r telling their stories of what they went through NOONE CAN PLAY GOD AND I BELIEAVE GOD WILL TAKE HER WHEN HER TIME COMES
It’s a very sad and day in this nation.
God have mercy on us.
The “powers” that be are stripping this nation of her heart and humanity.
Any 10 year old can see what Michael is doing to Terri. I have always felt that Michael has choked Terri. When Robert Herring offered 1 million dollars to Michael to give up his guardianship of Terri to her parents so they could take care of her and he refused to take it, makes a person wonder, doesn’t it. When He came into all of this money from a lawsuit, and it wasn’t used for her reabilitation, instead, it went for lawyers to fight to have the feeding tube removed, again, makes you wonder. He certainly wants Terri dead. Since Michael wouldn’t allow her to have any therapy on the muscles of her throat so she could talk and eat, this would keep her from being able to tell what really happened to cause her heart to stop. It certainly wasn’t from an eating disorder, because my daughter had an eating disorder and her heart didn’t stop nor did she get brain damage from it. Too, he wants her to be cremated instead of having an autopsy. Why, is he scared something will show up, being cremated, all evidence is burned up. Think about it. Michael is as guilty as sin. Too, his lawyer will get a nice chunk of the money.
carol
in addition to what you’ve said, please check out this affidavit:
http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm
Baby born with fatal defect dies after removal from life support
By LEIGH HOPPER
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
The baby wore a cute blue outfit with a teddy bear covering his bottom. The 17-pound, 6-month-old boy wiggled with eyes open and smacked his lips, according to his mother.
Then at 2 p.m. today, a medical staffer at Texas Children’s Hospital gently removed the breathing tube that had kept Sun Hudson alive since his Sept. 25 birth. Cradled by his mother, he took a few breaths, and died.
“I talked to him, I told him that I loved him. Inside of me, my son is still alive,” Wanda Hudson told reporters afterward. “This hospital was considered a miracle hospital. When it came to my son, they gave up in six months …. They made a terrible mistake.”
Sun’s death marks the first time a hospital has been allowed by a U.S. judge to discontinue an infant’s life-sustaining care against a parent’s wishes, according to bioethical experts. A similar case involving a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state at another Houston hospital is before a court now.
Under chapter 166 of the Texas Health and Safety Code, if an attending physician disagrees with a surrogate over a life-and-death treatment decision, there must be an ethics committee consultation (with notice to the surrogate and an opportunity to participate). In a futility case such as Sun Hudson’s, in which the treatment team is seeking to stop treatment deemed to be nonbeneficial, if the ethics committee agrees with the team, the hospital will be authorized to discontinue the disputed treatment (after a 10-day delay, during which the hospital must help try to find a facility that will accept a transfer of the patient). These provisions, which were added to Texas law in 1999, originally applied only to adult patients; in 2003; they were made applicable to disputes over treatment decisions for or on behalf of minors. (I hasten to add that one of the co-drafters in both 1999 and 2003 was the National Right to Life Committee. Witnesses who testified in support of the bill in 1999 included representatives of National Right to Life, Texas Right to Life, and the Hemlock Society. Our bill passed both houses, unanimously, both years, and the 1999 law was signed by then Governor George W. Bush.)
My heart goes out to Terri and her family. I have written 2 letters to Jeb Bush and signed every petition I could find to help to save her life. A culture of death is at hand and I fear a judgement from God on this nation. It is a sad day in America to see this happening and it breaks my heart. May God forgive me if I’m wrong but I really believe that Michael had something to do with Terri’s condition from the beginning. Nothing else makes any sense. If this is true, and he thinks he’s in the clear as soon as she dies, we should pity him for he will suffer forever. I haven’t slept for two nights. Such a sad day in America.
I have found comfort in knowing that Terri will spend eternity in the arms of her loving Father and be restored in all ways. The Lord Jesus will not let this crime go unanswered and justice will prevail.
Lisa Davis
Even people on death row get a last meal. She is being murdered by the system that is supposed to protect her. What a cruel injustice!
Speak life to her ~ God can make a way where there is none. Sometimes it’s darkest just before the light.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, not on the wrongdoers. The waves looked bad when Peter stepped out on the water,don’t look down. Call upon Him for Mercy!
My thoughts are with Terri’s family. This is a joke sitting back and watching people argue someones life. Would this be happening if it were a high profile person. I say NO! What is wrong with our country???? I do not even know what to write cause I am so pissed off. I can tell you this when all is said and done that PIG of an Husband Michael will be walking away with a chunk of change in his pocket and that is always what it comes down to MONEY AND GREED. I HOPE MICHAEL HAS MANY IF NOT ALL SLEEPLESS NIGHTS AHEAD FOR WHAT HE IS DOING. I DID NOT REALIZE THAT WE MET GOD. HE IS PLAYING THAT PART RIGHT NOW. LIFE WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CHOICE I GUESS THAT JOKE OF A MAN MICHAEL DOES NOT SEE THINGS THAT WAY.
TO THE SCHIAVO FAMILY: KEEP FIGHTING WE ARE ALL BEHIND YOU.
RENEE’ S
Where’s the courts humanity in all of this????
They’ve adhered to the letter of the law and as Jesus said, have forgotten the weightier things of the law, such as mercy.
Someone loves her and wants her, and the coldness of the heart of her unfaithful husband prevents her parents from taking care of her.
The INJUSTICE is stunning.
God made his decision 15 years ago.
This case has brought out the true side of many people. People who are vain and feel that anything or anyone less than perfect does not deserve to live among us.
Most likely Terri will die. Her blood will be on the hands of everyone who did nothing to help her when they could have. A woman who can laugh, smile, pucker her lips for a kiss, and swallow her own saliva is not brain dead. She is not on any form of life support aside from the feeding tube. She has been denied all medical rehabilitation because her estranged husband (who lives with another woman and has 2 kids with her) wants her to DIE.
She is being horrendously and painfully murdered. A long, slow, agonizing death by starvation and dehydration. A court order is even in place to make sure she doesn’t even get so much as an ice chip. She has been sentenced to die simply because she is disabled. And you can bet, she is feeling the pain.
May God be with her and her family. My prayers go out them all.
jamasiel
what god was that?
your comment is breathtakingly ignorant.
when the heart stops, brain waves cease, and the soul leaves the body, THAT is when God has made His decision. continuing to feed one of His children when that individual is disabled and unable to feed themselves is exactly what He would have us do until He is ready to take terri home.
disconnecting the tube is playing God, in effect – murdering terri before her time.
PLEASE SAVE TERRI. TESTIMONY FROM AN ESTRANGED HUSBAND SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS HEARSAY AND NOT USED AS EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE A PATIENTS ALLEGED ORAL REQUEST FOR MEASURES TO BE TAKEN IN THE EVENT OF CATASTROPHIC ILLNESS.
Please read the steps Germany and more specifically Adolph Hitler took to change the people’s attitudes towards euthanasia in that country. By 1933, Hitler was able to galvanize the federal government into sanctioning killing hospital patients routinely. For those who think this precedent will only be applied to brain damaged patients, please think again. What each of us needs to do is make a living will indicating ALL means should be used to preserve our lives. Join me in limiting the court’s ability to murder the citizens here like they did in German hospitals from 1895-1945.
Since Terri can breath, open her eyes and look around, shows motor mobility; then she should be kept alive.
In regards to the post from ‘angel’ above:
We have heard the claim in this debate that the President is inconsistent for supporting this bill and Terri, because, the accusation
runs, as Governor of Texas in 1999 he signed legislation now being used to
deny lifesaving treatment against family wishes. That’s based on a serious misunderstanding about the effect of the Texas law then-Governor Bush
signed.
Here are the facts:
In August 1996 the Journal of the American Medical Association
published an article describing procedures then in effect in Houston hospitals. Under these procedures, if a doctor wished to deny a patient
lifesaving medical treatment and the patient or the patient’s surrogate instead steadfastly expressed a desire for life, the doctor would submit the case to the hospital ethics committee. The patient or surrogate would be
given 72 hours notice of the committee meeting would be allowed to plead for the patient’s life at it. During that short 72 hour period, the patient or surrogate, while preparing to argue for life, could also try to find another
health care provider willing to give the lifesaving treatment, food or
fluids.
If the ethics committee decided for death, under these procedures there was no appeal. There was no provision that the food, fluids, or lifesaving treatment be provided after the decision while the patient or family tried to find another hospital willing to keep the patient alive.
So under these procedures, the hospitals in Houston were denying life-saving treatment, food and fluids against the wishes of patients and
their families, when the hospital ethics committees said their quality of
life was too poor. Patients and families were being given only 72 hours after being notified of the proposed denial to find another health care
provider.
In 1997 there was an advance directives bill going through the Texas legislature that would have given specific legal sanction to such
involuntary denial of life-saving treatment. An effort in the Texas legislature to amend the bill to require treatment pending transfer to a
health care provider willing to provide the life-saving treatment had been defeated. When that bill reached Governor George Bush’s desk, he vetoed it, and said he was vetoing it precisely because it authorized hospitals to deny
lifesaving medical treatment, food, and fluids against the will of the patients.
But even without that bill, these procedures were still going on. So there was an effort in the next sitting of the legislature, in 1999, to pass protective legislation. Unfortunately, the votes just weren’t there to
require lifesaving treatment, food, or fluids be provided by unwilling hospitals. So there were negotiations that resulted in a bill that gave
partial protection. That 1999 bill:
first, formalized more protections for in-hospital review
second, gave patients 10 days of treatment while seeking transfer,
and third, authorized court proceedings to extend the 10 days for reasonable additional periods to accomplish transfer.
Now this was not what patient advocates wanted and it wasn’t what Governor Bush wanted. However, it was an important advance over the
existing situation of no legal requirement of treatment pending transfer, for any period of time. The votes were not there in the Texas legislature to accomplish a more protective bill. So Governor Bush signed it because it
was an improvement over the existing law.
Now every member of this body knows that hard as you try, you often don’t get all you want in legislation. Every member of this body knows that you have to compromise and get the best you can, when it is an improvement even though it is far from what you would like. That is what then-Governor Bush did. It is simply wrong now to say he is inconsistent just because he signed a law that provided less protections against involuntary denial of treatment than he wanted, but more than were in the existing law.
Elizabeth Maier
National Right to Life
Michael should have no legal standing in the matter. By taking a common law wife and having a family with her, he has essentially forfieted any rights with regards to Terri. The law should formally remove him from having any authority over Terri’s case, thus reverting her care back to her parents, whose wishes would then be followed.
wally
you’ve nailed it. the schindlers have petitioned the court for guardianship to be removed from michael and given to them, those requests are still sitting on george greer’s desk, and they’ve never been ruled on to this day.
that is what is so sick about this case – greer won’t investigate michael’s fitness to be the guardian, but allows him to make life or death decisions for her. if he were an honest and fair judge, the first thing he’d do would be to have michael evaluated for fitness as the guardian before issuing ANY rulings about her welfare. and he’s not done that. we can only speculate why.
They should let her die in dignity and quit giving all the right wing conservatives a new cause to get involved with to make their meaningless lives somewhat entertaining. Just pull the tube out and let “God’s” wishes be fullfilled, if he wants her to live he will turn the feeding tube nutrition into wine so she can have her last communion.
“Man, if man you be in heart, not adamant, forbear that wicked cant until you have discovered what the surplus is, and where it is. Will you decide what men shall live and what men shall die? It may be in the sight of Heaven you are more worthless and less fit to live than millions like this poor man’s child. O God! to hear the insect on the leaf pronouncing on the too much life among his hungry brothers in the dust!” (Charles Dickens)
pro “woman”
wow, with a screen name like that, you sure sound confused about your positions….
but listen, you messed up, because you admitted that the image you see is of a CHILD.
the proabortion manual says you’re supposed to call that baby a ‘blob a tissue’.
every now and then, the truth slips out, like it or not………
It is not love of any kind that arrogantly says, “Better to be dead than live like Terri, there is nothing there, she is gone anyway.”
My answer is, Better to be stupid than to be so “smart” you think you have the right to judge Terri’s life is not worth living, just because you wouldn’t wish to live it yourself.
And you are a Satan’s puppet on a wicked string with pointy horns for condoning it much less rationalizing it without written implied consent of Terri, the one that is doing that dying. Come on, call me your cuss word like “Christian” for calling you a Satan puppet, that is exactly what you are and you don’t even know it. You will find out one day.
Regardless of what any expert mouth piece Schiavo-Pelos paid pinhead says, the only way to prevent pain while dying of dehydration is with a bullet shot straight into the brain. Period
I am outrage that this is happening to Terri and her family. I haven’t been able to sleep in the past two weeks. I cannot rest. Not even with prayer.
America is flowing with the greatest amount of Pure Evil I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. Terri is being persecuted by less than half of this country. Michael Schiavo is an innocent caring loving husband. (sic) blah blah blah
If Terri dies, America will never be the same after she is gone. I will never have the respect and deep love for my country again.
I will contribute every spare dime I have to see Schiavo, Pelos and Greer, et al, face another court, a criminal court and charged with Murder.
I believe that innocent life is precious and is not to be judged by anyone. I believe in Due Process of Law, and the protection of US Constitution, for ALL. America has gone down the toilet, and stands for nothing, but death. This is something I am very ashamed off and disgusted by. The day Terri is DOA, I would bet by Easter Sunday, God Forbid, please, I just may burn my American flag and spit on it, while doing so. My staunch red white and blue balloon is deflating as slowly as Terri’s life is. My family fought for this country and died for Terri, for nothing. I sacrificed my life living in UnGodly places all around the world as far as Tripoli Libya while my Father served, to protect Terri, for nothing. A part of me will die, when she dies. I am rudely woken up to some very ugly truth. I always knew there was evil swirling around US but never did dream it would come down to my own country vs Terri Schiavo. This scares me. What scares me more is that Jeb Bush is not using his Executive Power to stop it. What scares me is I don’t believe the Love of My Life, MY President, is doing enough to stop it. I pray they prove me wrong. God Bless Terri and her Family. please, we need a miracle.
Judge Greer better do a 180 today or I will spend the rest of my life fighting to get him off his corrupt bench and send him to work on the chain gang with Schivao and Pelos. If they can do this to Terri, anything is possible.
We won’t hear from Pro-woman ( pro-death is a better choice of a name for her)…
she’s just one of those hit and run…no courage, no fortitude…just an idiot.
She would fear to have to actually look again at what she supports…truth makes people really mad.
I cannot believe it, Judge Greer, Pelos and Monster Schiavo is going to get away with the murder of Terri under the nose of our media, the Florida State Police, The State Court, The Supreme Court, Our President, Our Congress and Governor Bush. That Weasel Death Advocate Pelos just came out and told the Press that Terri is calm and peaceful, no need for any medication, and confirmed Greer ordered at the wishes of Schivao, no written will of Terri, that her body be cremated and buried in Pa. Does THAT NOT EVEN RAISE A RED FLAG TO ANYONE IN POWER AND TO THE MEDIA?? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON! AUTOSPY…TO GIVE HER PARENTS SOME PEACE OF MIND, FOR GOD’S SAKES. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! GIVE HER OWN PARENTS HER BODY! WHAT THESE THREE HAVE PULLED OFF UDERMINES WHAT JOHN GOTTI DID, BUT HE DIDN’T GET AWAY WITH IT.
I just cannot believe this happening in America. CANNOT believe it!
Why is it that many of the “religious conservatives” in this country see no problem with war to protect oil stocks and yet get so upset when a husband makes a very personal and legal decision? Curious….
Judge Greer received money from the Schiavo’s for his campaign. He should never be elected again.
I am ashamed to be an American. We are starving persons like Terri Schiavo To death.
God Bless, Virginia Prescott, Trenton Mich. 48183
neliberal
suggest you look a bit further than the latest CBS broadcast for your facts.
the ‘husband’ you refer to has much to gain and much to hide by terri’s death. his motives are anything but pure. they have to do with money, and attempted murder.
http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm
Jerry,
I wasn’t claiming purity of motive for Mr. Schiavo. It may well be that he does have quite unscrupulous motives. I was just wondering why it seems (and this may be an unfair view) that much of the religiously conservative movement is interested in protecting the lives of americans under any and all circumstances, but do not seem to extend that compassion to people in other parts of the world, nor for that matter to people who disagree with them religiously. This board is rife with inflammatory comments about the “evil” nature of Judge Greer, Attorney Felos, and anyone else who interprets the law or situation in a way members find disagreeable. Tolerance it seems is only possible for people who agree with you, at least to my way of thinking that is not tolerance at all.
Jerry,
I did go look at the website and document you recommended and if that is an accurate representation of Terri’s condition it is indeed troubling. My concern (not having enough time to investigate this all myself) is that the “affadavit” is not a copy of a signed document and bears no official seal from the court. Also, the affadavit of Ms. Law uses almost the exact same language regarding range of motion therapy and is likewise neither signed nor stamped. I am probably naive, but I trust our courts to investigate situations like this and I would rather rely on their assertions than on copies of “filings” posted to a website with an obvious agenda. If it turns out that Terri was railroaded, then I will be the first to call for the prosecution of all involved.
What is the point of bothering to elect representatives if they do not act when they’re really needed? I thank Gov Bush for passing Terri’s Law in 2003, but this time around he is acting as if he needs to ask permission from the judge to perform his duties. I just don’t understand this whole thing, so much in shock, it seems like a nightmare. He did kind of make the attempt to help Terri but I had a bad feeling about it- why he would go and ask mother may I, to this judge who is so obviously having an agenda of his own in this. Seems like he’s been paid off, or there’s something there- with this witness yesterday saying Terri told her she wants to live, I just cannot believe that no one in our government has any power to intervene. If a racist judge was ordering a lynching , wouldn’t there be the governor to intercept that???
Anyways, this wholething with the dcourts has been a farce, and like Terri’s dad said “disgusting and revolting” what they are doing to her. I think it’s absolutely inhumane, disgusting, a crime against humanity what they’ve put Terri and her whole family through. My heart feels like it’s literally been broken this week, in a way never before. My little girl asked me the saddest question of my life, that I can remember in my whole life. She asked me sadly “why is it so hard to just let someone eat and drink??”
I fear what will happen to our country if she is allowed to be publicly killed, an innocent woman, it feels too close to pre Nazi Germany….keep praying, she’s still alive.
neliberal
obviously the stamp and the notary’s info is not going to be on a website. but this woman has been all over the news, interviewed by many, and her story is consistent. besides, the affidavit is from two years ago. it’s a matter of court records. do a nexus search on this or even a yahoo or google search and you’ll find plenty of support for its authenticity. the document is accurate, and the testimony is reliable.
the reason this kind of testimony is being ignored by the courts is because judge greer has refused to rule on the competency of michael as guardian, and that’s what these documents relate to. greer has only allowed testimony and evidence that he and michael need to ‘prove’ terri is in a PVS and supposedly ‘wanted’ to die. all other evidence has been ignored. this is a travesty of justice of epidemic proportions. urging you to do some more research on this – while it’s true that http://www.terrisfight.org is biased in favor of terri being allowed to live, the info on there is verifiable and not in dispute by anyone, except michael schiavo. granted, questions about her ability to communicate and swallow and interact with others remain, and the schindlers are of the opinion that she’s not in a PVS, as am i, but if that affidavit or other documents were forged or false, michael and prodeath attorney pelos would’ve sued carla iyer and some of the others involved in a heartbeat. but they feel confident that it will never be an issue – once terri dies and is cremated (at michael’s request), all evidence will be obliterated, and how michael treated her will be a moot point. the time to care about her being railroaded is now, while she’s still alive.
Jerry,
Actually if these are copies of actual legal documents I would expect to see the associated stamps and court data. I will check out Nexus when I get to the office. Having read the affidavit, I don’t see how it would not be material to the determination of whether Terri is in a persistent vegetative state. certainly if medical personnel are having “conversations” or snippets of them with her that would directly address her cognitive abilities as well as her level of consciousness. Given that, it seems quite unfortunate that the Schindler’s have not retained effective counsel. It does seem odd that a conspiracy of the proportions necessary to bypass all legal and political checks could be bearing down on Terri. But, stranger things have happened. I hope Jerry, that when this has been resolved (either by intervention or Terri’s death) many of the people here will use their obvious zeal to try and help save those other people on the planet desperate for anyones help and attention.
neliberal
the zeal you see in this case is accentuated by the fact that one puny probate judge has seen fit to bury and overlook most of the relevant evidence in this case. and other courts have simply rubber stamped his unjust rulings, unfortunately. it’s not a conspiracy, but rather, judicial activism and arrogance, along with apathy and indifference. and the zeal you see is also tied to the fact that that one judge has sentenced an innocent american citizen to death by starvation, while a great deal of evidence submitted to him has been ignored. please scroll up and read some of the previous posts by others detailing the corruption of george greer and michael schiavo. as far as the stamps and other proof on the affidavits, stop and think a minute. the woman who filed that one did so over two years ago. and she’s been on tv and radio being interviewed about it. if there was any fraud at all, prodeath lawyer felos and michael schiavo would’ve sued her for everything she’s got, and a judge could’ve had her jailed for perjury. her statements are not being called into question, because the schiavo side is confident that terri will die, be cremated, and the abuse and attempted murder will be forgotten.
but when two nurses who worked with terri at different times and never met each other, say essentially the same thing, and sign affidavits to that effect, it’s hard to dispute, especially since they have absolutely nothing to gain.
the zeal you see is routinely applied to the least of these, by the same folks trying to help terri. what happens ‘on the planet’ isn’t something we can do a lot about, but as americans, there are things we can do about what happens in our own country, to our own citizens, born and unborn.
for one, we can impeach judges who make mockeries of their roles and we can elect judges who will rule fairly and justly. greer is little more than the party to the murder of an innocent woman by her ‘husband’.
Jerry,
I think you underestimate your ability to make an impact, that said, best of luck in supporting your beliefs (we probably differ on quite a few, but I will always be supportive of people pushing for what they believe). By the way, my mother in the last few months of life with inoperable cancer so I know a bit (albeit a small bit) of the pain Terri’s family must feel. In my case it is a disease that is taking her life, but in both cases it now appears that the outcome is inevitable. I do trust the legal system and don’t see interpretation of the law as a sign of judicial activism, but I understand your point of view. Good luck and G-d bless Terri and her family in this trying time.
neliberal
as far as trusting the legal system goes, i guess that would take a huge amount of faith for most people. because in this case, they’ve certainly proved that they are incapable of doing the right thing. if you scroll up you’ll see documented some of the greer abuses that would get most judges thrown off the bench. for one thing, he won’t rule on the key issue – michael’s fitness to be the guardian. the legal system is infamous for wrong headed and unjust rulings – you’ve got more faith than most of us.
this is clearly a case of judicial activism – greer is simply a probate judge, but he’s already defied congressional subpeonas, acts of congress, denied motions relative to the case, and ordered that terri’s tube be removed when there is no written directive. hearsay is not welcome in a court of law, and yet, in greer’s court, it’s enough to sentence an innocent woman to death.
It’s gone beyond stunning, what Terr’s unfaithful husband is doing.
He and his lawyer (I call them Monsters Inc.) won’t even allow this poor woman to have Communion as she is passing and on Easter.
As if a few drops of Communion wine or a bit of wafer would keep her alive.
Truly, those who wish her dead are abhorent.
This is an act of faith if it will help-can someone ask the family to consider religious freedom arguments? A place to start may be the (Catholic) Church’s stance on right to life and their guidelines on the (NYS) health care proxy. This is really a God thing…
I am a reader from The Netherlands, and I am amazed by all this.
I am opposed to most forms of killing people, such as murder, war and death sentence.
However I am not opposed to abortion or euthanesia in some cases, not all.
I cannot understand that the so called “Pro Life” organizations claim to be pro-life at one time and then completely turn around and kill others. Perhaps they don’t kill people themselves, but they did elect a pro-death President. So they are responsible. Don’t come back with that George W Bush is not, because he is for the death penalty. How can you be pro-death sentence and be a Christian? One of the 10 commandments is “Thou shalt not kill”, which is apparently only followed selectively. And did he not break this commandment by sending over a 1000 young, mostly poor people to die in Iraq?
All that these Christian Extremist can do is quote from the Bible, but no one in this world has ever been able to prove that the Bible is the only true book.
I do not need a preacher to tell me how to live my life. I am perfectly capable of doing that myself.
I was raised Roman-Catholic myself, but now I am an Atheist, because I could not agree anymore with what the Roman-Catholic/Christian church stands for.
It is now a discriminating organization in regards to gay rights. And I believe that discrimination in any form is illegal.
Also what is totally wrong now that there is no seperation between government and religion in the USA anymore.
The government has to protect the rights of all their citizens of all religions and all ways of life, and not only the Christian citizens.
But the main question remains, should Terri Schiavo die? Did any, of the previous people that have posted here, ever talked to Terri Schiavo herself about her wishes, if she ever became this way, 16 years ago, back when she was still able to talk about it? I don’t think so, neither did I. I think that we have to rely on, is that she might have talked about it with her husband.
It might not be yours or my point of view, but we have to respect that it is theirs. We, outsiders, can never ever judge here or make the decision for them. Nor can we force a religion on them!
regards,
A Dutchman
To Terri: We as maericans let you down, I’m sorry for that but God loves you and to me that the most important thing that I can say to you, even though I never met you I see you as a long dear friend who I can’t help but again God can so let’s continue to pray that God will save her.
Kevin,
Louisiana
Guess it’s about time we named our judges, the Death Judges, fitting considering the number of abortions and no telling what number of deaths in the future by starvation as they are setting this as a precedent. One more reason to be proud of our country and the direction our leaders are taking us in. God help us.
Whoever threatened the life of Michael’s sister in law and her family should be ashamed of himself. That’s ridiculous. It’s sad that someone who is supportive of Terri and her family would threaten the lives of others.
anonimous
i need to go get my shovel…. the bilge and absolutely ignorant crapola that you are spewing is embarassing to any thinking person. it’s as if you got yourself a liberalism handbook, leafed through it briefly, became a big believer, and went out to make your new found opinions public. but mr. dutchman, unencumbered by the thought process, you have only shown yourself to be a thoroughly dull individual, incapable of an original thought. none of the foolishness and sophistry you’ve spewed out is deserving a reply, because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but just for grins, i’ll point one thing out to you. the Bible doesn’t say “thou shalt not kill”. that is a translation of the original, but the original and the best translations say “thou shalt not murder”. big difference. support for the death penalty is perfectly in line with what the Bible teaches about justice and the administration thereof. but starving someone to death on hearsay evidence……well, that’s not.
i don’t know what goes on between your ears, anonimous, other than wind blowing through, but it’s abundantly clear that you are anything but a deep thinker.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS ANIMAL HAS BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO KEEP ANOTHER HUMAN BEING ALIVE! WHO IS HE GOD, OR DOES HE THINK HE IS THE ALMIGHTY SAVIOR. WE DON’T EVEN LET OUR OWN PETS STARVE MUCH LESS A DEFENDLESS PERSON! HE CLAIMS THIS ARE HER WISHES, WELL ARE HER WISHES ALSO THAT HER PARENTS CANNOT BE BY HER SIDE AT THE TIME OF HER DEATH! WHAT AN ANIMAL, BEAST!
As despicable as this situation is, the courts acted properly. This whole Terri Schiavo situation was not a legal issue; it’s a moral issue. It became a legal issue based solely on the lack of morals on the part of Michael Schiavo.
We do not want the courts dictating morals for whose morals would we choose? The right to lifers? The pro-choicers? The environmentalists? The capitalists? The Atheists? Or the religionists? Or would morality be based on those who have the majority votes in Congress?
Morality is something we should take into our own hands and leave the courts out of it.
I would love to know where Michael Schiavo works, and I would be sure to boycott that company that hires him or any company he chooses to work for in the future.
Morally speaking, we have the right to blacklist Michael Schiavo from society. We should reject him from society, and the best way to do that is to make it so that no one wants to do business with him or be his friend.
Anybody know where he works?
As for the question of why would “Christian extremists” choose war one day and fight to save the life of one feeble female the next, coming from a child, that would be a legitimate question; however, in the case of adults, it’s only thinly disguised contempt and hatred for those who believe differently, complete arrogance on the part of the questioner who automatically and obviously assumes that he, the questioner, has the answer to all of life’s questions. The question itself is not a question but really a statement that says, I am smarter and better than you, and I am more wise, and you are stupid and ignorant.
These questioners like to dress themselves up in the mantra of “I am so wise, so much more wise than you, because I have an open mind and can accept those who are different or those who believe differently,” while the very essence of their question is an oxymoron. Simply put, it is the pot calling the kettle black.
I prefer the company of those who admit to being blind rather than the company of a blind man that deludes himself into believing he can actually see.
You will never receive an answer to the question you are asking simply because you aren’t really asking a question at all.
I am glad to see she is gone, atleast she will finally have what she deserves peace and happiness! Her husband is not as cold hearted as some may believe, or he would not have held her thru death, you wouldn’t do this if you hated someone. He also agreed to an autospy and I hope everyone who has condemned him finds they are so wrong…………….. I would not say straving is humane, but to live as Terri was is awful……… I will certianly be writing a living will! If Terri had a clue as to how public her death had become, I certianly hope God wiped it all from her memeory, as I am sure this would not have made anyone including Terri happy! My heart goes out to the family who couldn’t get in to see thier dying relative becuz of all the kaos outside hospice, this didn’t just effect Terri it effected other families too and I for one thinks it was very cruel to cause the kaos at other expense……….. how would you feel if you got your last call and had to fight thru that to get in?
We need to help Terri!! Help protest the feeding to removal!!
I am totally discusted about the news I heard today about the death of Terri Schiavo discusted so much so I cannot even find the proper words to describe my anger. so many people for some reason have pitty for Michael Schiavo. He is just as good as a killer in my eyes who saw his wife as a burden that needed to be put down like she was some kind of animal. although even animals are killed in a more humaine way then this poor soul who for so long was already tortured. This move was just prolonged her suffering. I cannot get over the fact that she was starved and dehydrated to the point of death. how could a country like the United States who time and time again say they are dedicated to human rights and morality let this woman die in this manner? my heart goes to Terri. God rest her soul. And her parents. I have nothing but discust for the likes of Michael “Who by the way in a report I just read is not even allowing Terri’s parents to be at her burial” stop feeling sorry for him people and start feeling sorry for the real victims here. this man is one of the lowest forms of a human being I have ever heard about in my 19 years of life and all I can say is what goes around comes around. God bless Terri Schiavo her parents and relatives and all the people who have been saddend by the crime that has been commited
It is absolutely incomprehensible how the PARENTS of Terri Schiavo had no right to decide if their child lived or died. Her mother brought her into this world and was a blood relation. It is true that the bible states that when a man and woman marry they become one, but it means one in spirit; NOT one of the same body or blood. Many people do not think of their own parents how they would feel if they could not even decide the fate for their own child. Imagine you love someone very much and this person is of your blood and someone who is not even of blood tells you that you have no say whether your child lives or dies. Regardless of whether or not I believe that Terri’s parents were right or wrong for wanting to keep her alive, I DO believe it was their right and if that is what they wanted to do and were willing to accept responsiblity then WHY was she allowed to die? I am furious about what happened. It just goes to show what kind of messed up country we live in and although I am a United States citizen, I would like to take some of the laws in this country and do you know what with them although I will not say out of respect for the people reading this letter. I would never ever support any politician involved in the decision of removing the feeding tube from Terri and my love and prayers go out to Terri and her family. I can say one thing, at least she is with G-d now and at peace and does not have to be tormented by all the people that agreed with Mr. Schiavo regarding the removal of her feeding tube. That was not even euthanasia; it was plain cruelty. It is like they wanted to see her suffer…that is SICK. Whatever happened to Mercy and humane treatment like Euthanasia? My heartfelt sorrow goes out to Terri, her parents and anyone else that was affected by this terrible event. May G-d be with you all.
Wendy,
What we have just seen is Euthinasia. Believe me, I say this is in the spirit of love, don’t be deceived. There is nothing humaine and loving about Euthinasia. It is murder. Satan has deceived our nation. Brain damaged individuals are living, loving people. They have feelings. Don’t believe the myths. Don’t believe the lies. If you have ever know a brain damaged person, you have known the truth. People with cerebral palsy often have a very difficult time making eye contact and are unable to verbally communicate. At one time these individuals were thought to have no cognative function. Now, with computers, these individuals are often college educated and can communicate as well as you and I. What is going to happen if this continues? Terri’s murder is one too many. I am so heart broken that our country would let this happen. We are no better than communist.
God bless you!
Judy
Please allow me to correct a misconception. I arrange structured settlements and annuities through an insurance company, similar to what Michael Schiavo would have for his wife Terri. Normally, structured settlements are doled out in small monthly amounts (unless bought out by an investment firm). The contract of ALL structured settlements states that if the annuitant (Terri) passes away leaving a balance, that money must be returned to the company arranging the annuity. Michael must apply to the court to use the money for any other purpose (except the amount he received personally for loss of spousal claims – $300,000). He would not be allowed to keep any “windfall.” In any case, there isn’t any “windfall” to be had since the funds have been exhausted with Terri’s care and the application he made to use approximately $500,000 to defend his case against the Schindlers.
dawn
i don’t want to give you a headache by stating facts, but your post is so totally void of factual truth that i find i must. as far as schiavo “holding” terri through death, please. even a simple-minded individual could see through that orchestrated p.r. move. it was all planned out in advance that he would show up at the last minute and do that – CBS (a highly credible news agency in your book, i’m sure) posted an obituary on their website of terri days BEFORE she actually died, and it mentioned michael “holding” her as she died. think a bit, please.
you say he is not as cold-hearted as some believe – no, he’s probably even more cold-hearted than most believe. this is the same man who refused to allow her shades to be opened, refused to allow her to go outside, refused to allow her to be treated for simple infections, refused to allow her any rehab whatsoever, and kept going around saying ‘when is that b-tch gonna die?’. why do you come on here and make foolish statements that fly in the face of the known facts, dawn?
as far as agreeing to an autopsy, again, i say, will you please try thinking before you type such inane absurdities? the autopsy was required by law, and will only show how she died, which we already know. SHE WAS KILLED BY STARVATION. but if he truly cared he would’ve insisted on an MRI or PET scan WHILE SHE WAS ALIVE. but since he wanted her dead, that just wouldn’t do.
as far as the silly comment about the publicity not “making terri happy” – i don’t know what you’ve been smoking, dawn. but just stop and think a minute. do you think terri, who loved her mom, dad, sister and brother at least as much as she loved michael (when she married him, that is), would’ve preferred to have her sorry excuse for a husband treat her family in such a horrific and cruel manner, by forcing her to die without food and water, forbidding her loving mother from even giving the poor girl an ice chip? because that’s what michael and his attorney insisted on. NO COMFORT FOR TERRI, PERIOD. just death.
for sheer cruelty, michael schiavo, judge greer, and george felos are unequaled in modern american history.
George Felos: Dehydration And Starvation – A Great Way To Die!
By Barbara Stock (03/29/05)
George Felos, perhaps trying to ease his guilt, (though this is unlikely since one must have a conscience to feel guilt) and improve his image as a heartless ogre, went before cameras and fed the world one of the biggest lies it has ever heard. He related how “peaceful and beautiful” Terri is as she lay dying. I guess if dying of dehydration and starvation is so lovely, perhaps we should all die that way. Perhaps we should give that option to criminals on death row. We certainly should stop being concerned about the children in poor countries dying of starvation. George Felos has told us it’s a great way to die!
All of the chaos surrounding Terri’s impending death isn’t just about Terri or her family. It is about what we as a society are going to be willing to accept in the future.
The court rulings, all in favor of the legal murder of a non-terminal human being, are laying the groundwork for the legal euthanasia of the old and physically and mentally handicapped people of all ages. We have become Nazi Germany/1933. This is a dark and dangerous path that America is moving down and what amazes and frightens me is how willingly some people are being led and what lengths are being taken to justify murder.
Let’s clear one thing up right from the start. There cannot be any comparison between Terri Schiavo’s case and the case of a person in the final stages of cancer or some other life-ending disease. Terri is not terminally ill; she was never terminally ill. She was illegally admitted to the hospice where she is now being killed. Her admission was illegal under Hospice protocol and Medicare guidelines because she was not terminally ill. With a simple feeding tube, she could live for decades without any health problems at all. If Terri had received the therapy that has been denied to her, she probably could eat food normally. Terri is not brain dead. She has committed no crime. Yet, because her husband convinced a few judges that Terri “would not want to live that way,” she has been condemned to death with fewer rights than a mass murderer. In fact, she has no rights at all. Terri never had her own lawyer to represent her.
If Terri was truly brain dead, it would not be murder, but she is not brain dead. Every day in this country families make the painful decision to “pull the plug” on a loved one who has suffered a catastrophic injury. Their now-damaged-beyond-repair bodies are kept alive totally by machines and their brains are not functioning enough to tell them to breathe. Often, an external pacemaker is needed just to keep their hearts beating. It’s only a matter of time before their bodies realize the organ-in-charge is dead. In fact, they don’t swallow their own saliva, a sign of severe brain damage. These people require almost constant suctioning or they drool and aspirate their own secretions.
Has anyone noticed that Terri does not drool?
I have heard people say everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment. This is true. However, the law clearly states that minors and those who cannot speak for themselves are protected and if those in charge of their care refuse treatment for them, the state makes that child or person a ward of the state for treatment.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in blood transfusions. If the child of a Witness member is brought to the emergency room hemorrhaging and the parents refuse a transfusion for that child and that child will die without a blood transfusion, a judge will issue a decree making that child a temporary ward of the state. Every ER in America has a judge on speed dial for just that reason.
Why has Terri not been given the same protection under the law? Because the man appointed to be her guardian has decided he wants her to die. For reasons that simply cannot be explained, the legal system turned Terri’s fate over to the two men who stood to benefit from her death. George Felos has benefited financially in the litigation involved in killing Terri. It has been reported that as much as $600,000 of Terri’s money has been paid to George Felos and his staff. Judge Greer even allowed Terri’s money to be spent by Felos to “deal with the media.” Michael Schiavo reportedly spent most of the money that he was awarded on personal expenses, impressing a long string of girlfriends, and in his quest to kill his wife. He certainly didn’t spend much of it on Terri. The taxpayers have been paying her bills for the last five years.
Judge Greer waved off all the sworn statements from people claiming that Michael Schiavo had told them he didn’t know what to do with Terri because they had never talked about dying. Instead, the mantra has become, “This is what Terri wants.” Greer ignored the bone scan riddled with healed fractures and numerous claims of spousal abuse. Greer just didn’t care.
With that slogan in hand, those who support euthanasia had a poster child. “Terri wants to die” was what everyone heard. A lie repeated often enough will eventually be believed. In truth, no one knows what Terri wants. When she was finally asked what she wanted, the same judge that condemned her to death decided that her response was not “credible.” He took nearly an entire day to issue a rejection he probably knew he would issue after five minutes. Did he hope she would die and save him the trouble? Why did Judge Greer never go sit by Terri’s bed and observe the woman now dying because of his order?
People must understand the goal of those who support the euthanasia of human beings. They are not talking about the terminally ill. Those people have been allowed to leave this earthy plain without intervention for a long time. The “Right to Die” supporters want the legal right to “humanely kill” anyone disabled or infirm that is deemed a burden or that is “suffering” because of their condition. If Grandma is a little senile and no one has time to take care of her, just go to court, say that Grandma didn’t want to live this way, and legally dispose of her. It will all be neat, tidy, clean, and legal. No muss, no fuss. Will Grandma be starved to death like Terri? Of course not, since in a year or two, that also will be deemed cruel. No, it will just be a quick lethal injection and a then off to the crematorium for Grandma. The slogan of “Right to Die” should be “Right to Murder.” That would be the correct description.
Anyone who thinks this is outrageous and will never happen here needs to study history. In the early days of Nazi Germany, people were convinced that their handicapped children, elderly family members, and severely injured loved ones “would not want to live that way.” These unfortunate souls should be humanely put to sleep so that they could be “reborn” in healthy bodies. People lined up, willingly, to have their own family members killed. So don’t think it can’t happen here: It is happening right now–in Florida. Terri is just the first step. After this, it will be much easier to dispose of the unwanted. There is now legal precedent.
The massive and false “this is what Terri’s wants” and “starvation is a beautiful way to die” is in full swing and it is being believed. The reports were a lie that she can’t feel pain because of her massive brain injury. Terri is now being given morphine to “ease her pain.”
You should be afraid, very afraid. The day will come when euthanasia will no longer be voluntary, but it will be the law. When you are no longer a viable contributor to society, you will be judged a burden and that will be a death sentence. When your family decides they don’t want to be bothered with you anymore, it’s the end of the line. What and who–are we becoming?
Barbara is a Registered Nurse who is branching out to political writing. She has had several articles posted on numerous political pages.